Composite Galilean transformation in 2 dimensions

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Discussion Overview

The discussion focuses on the composite Galilean transformations in two dimensions, specifically how to combine rotations, boosts, and translations into a single set of equations. Participants explore the implications of the order in which these transformations are applied, considering both geometric and algebraic approaches.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the equations for rotations, boosts, and translations, and attempts to combine them into a single pair of equations.
  • Another participant states that there is no "correct" order for combining these transformations, noting that different orders yield different transformations due to the non-commutative nature of Galilean transformations.
  • A participant inquires about the methods for modifying the transformations, questioning whether a geometric or purely algebraic approach is necessary.
  • Another participant confirms that both sets of equations provided by the original poster are correct but represent different transformations based on the order of operations applied.
  • There is a discussion about the possibility of separating algebra from geometry in the analysis of these transformations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that both sets of equations are valid but represent different transformations. There is disagreement regarding the necessity of a specific order for combining transformations, with some asserting that the order affects the outcome.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the implications of different orders of transformations and the potential need for modifications to the equations based on the chosen approach.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners interested in the mathematical foundations of transformations in physics, particularly in the context of classical mechanics and coordinate systems.

Afterthought
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The Galilean transforms for rotations, boosts and translations in 2D are the follows:

Rotations:
x' = xcosθ + ysinθ
y' = -xsinθ + ycosθ

Boosts:
x' = x - vxt
y' = y - vyt

Translations:
x' = x - dx
y' = y - dx

I wanted to combine these into a single pair of equations, so my first thought was to combine boosts and translations and plug into rotations. Doing that, you get:

x' = (x - dx - vxt)cosθ + (y - dy - vyt)sinθ
y' = -(x - dx - vxt)sinθ + (y - dy - vyt)cosθ

However, I realized that if you combined the equations differently, say by first plugging rotations into translations, and then plugging that into boosts, you get:

x' = xcosθ + ysinθ - vxt - dx
y' = -xsinθ + ycosθ- vyt - dy

Which is the correct order, if any, and why? It's also possible that I'm doing the composite wrong somehow, haven't really done that sort of thing since pre-calc.. I'm a junior now.
 
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There is no "correct" order, you can do it either way, but you will have to use different boosts and displacements. The galilei transformations are generally non-commutative (it is not the same to make a particular boost firs and then a particular rotation as it is to do them in the opposite order). This is nothing strange, rotations in dimensions higher than two are not commutative either.
 
How would I go about modifying them? Do I have to analyze everything geometrically, or are there purely algebraic ways of doing it?
 
You have just done it yourself, so how did you do it?
 
I did translations and boosts geometrically, and used linear algebra for rotations. Although I probably could have done rotations geometrically. At any case I'd prefer an algebraic approach, although I don't know how possible it is to divorce the algebra from geometry.

Edit: Nearly forgot, but do you mean that neither of the two equations I put above are right *as is*, or that the first one is right, but the second needs modification?
 
No, both are right. They just describe different galilean transformations. Just as you get different rotations by first rotating around the y-axis and then the z-axis as compared to doing it in the other order. One describes translate and boost first, then rotate. The other rotate first, then boost and translate.
 
Ah okay, I didn't understand 100% correctly at first. Thank you.
 

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