How do I determine the linear/non-linearity of this problem?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the linearity of a system described by a transformation operator T applied to a discrete input function x[n] to produce an output function y[n]. Participants explore the definitions of linearity, including superposition and homogeneity, and seek clarification on how to apply these concepts to their specific equations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants define a linear system based on the properties of superposition and homogeneity, providing examples of each.
  • There is confusion regarding the operator T and its role in the transformation from x[n] to y[n], with participants questioning its definition and implications for linearity.
  • One participant suggests that without a clear formula for T, it is impossible to determine if the transformation is linear or time-invariant.
  • Another participant proposes that to test for linearity, one should demonstrate the conditions of superposition and homogeneity using specific examples.
  • Participants express uncertainty about the relationship between the discrete and continuous representations of the functions involved, particularly regarding the transformation T.
  • There is a suggestion to switch focus to a second problem if clarity on the first cannot be achieved.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the application of linearity to the transformation T, and there are multiple competing views regarding the definitions and implications of the operator. The discussion remains unresolved as participants continue to seek clarification and explore different aspects of the problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that there may be missing information regarding the exact wording of the problem and the definition of the transformation T, which complicates the analysis of linearity.

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Homework Statement
Determine whether the system is (a) linear, (b) time-invariant:
Relevant Equations
y[n] = T{x[n]} = x(t)
y(t) = cos(3t)x(t)
A system is linear if it satisfies the properties of superposition and homogeneity.

Superposition: adding the inputs of two systems results in the addition of the two outputs.
Ex) x1(t) + x2(t) = y1(t) + y2(t)

Homogeneity: multiplying the input by some scalar value is equal to the output multiplied by that same value.
Ex) ax1(t) = ay2(t)

After doing some internet searching, I also found this equation for superposition: f(a+b) = f(a) + f(b)

However, I don't know how to apply these rules to determine whether my equations are linear or not.
My attempt for determining SP:
y1[n] + y2[n] = T{x1[n] + x2[n]} = n(x1[n] + x2[n])

If my attempt at SP is correct, what is the next step? If it is wrong, what is the right way to write it, and then what is the next step?
 
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What is the operator ##T\left\{\cdot \right\}## ? ##n## is natural ? ##y[n]## is discrete and ##y(t)## is continuous ? Can you define better this system before to start to prove the two conditions ?
Ssnow
 
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Ssnow said:
What is the operator ##T\left\{\cdot \right\}## ? ##n## is natural ? ##y[n]## is discrete and ##y(t)## is continuous ? Can you define better this system before to start to prove the two conditions ?
Ssnow
Thank you for your reply Ssnow,

The second equation is a separate problem; apologies for being unclear. We can ignore that.

So for now we are just dealing with the discrete problem. Unfortunately, I am unsure what the T{} operator is for. I would guess that it is an arbitrary value representing a function of a function; i.e. x[n] is a function of T. Again guessing, I think n is some arbitrary value; it could be a, or b, or whatever else.
 
Lapse said:
The second equation is a separate problem; apologies for being unclear. We can ignore that.
So this is the one you are concerned with?
y[n] = T{x[n]} = x(t)

I understand the first part, y[n] = T{x[n]}, but not why this would be equal to x(t).

Here T is some transformation that is applied to x[n] to produce y[n].
Lapse said:
So for now we are just dealing with the discrete problem. Unfortunately, I am unsure what the T{} operator is for. I would guess that it is an arbitrary value representing a function of a function; i.e. x[n] is a function of T.
No, you have this backwards. y[n] is a function of x[n] via the transformation T. T is a transformation that operates on a sequence or function x[n]. It is not a value.
Lapse said:
Again guessing, I think n is some arbitrary value; it could be a, or b, or whatever else.
Finally, if you are not given a formula for T, there is no way you can tell whether it is linear or time-invariant. Are you sure that the second equation, y(t) = cos(3t)x(t), isn't part of this problem?

For a transformation T, Tis linear if T(a + b) = T(a) + T(b) and if T(ka) = kT(a), where a and b are in the domain of T, and k is a scalar constant.
 
Last edited:
Mark44 said:
So this is the one you are concerned with?
y[n] = T{x[n]} = x(t)

I understand the first part, y[n] = T{x[n]}, but not why this would be equal to x(t).

Here T is some transformation that is applied to x[n] to produce y[n].
No, you have this backwards. y[n] is a function of x[n] via the transformation T. T is a transformation that operates on a sequence or function x[n]. It is not a value.

Finally, if you are not given a formula for T, there is no way you can tell whether it is linear or time-invariant. Are you sure that the second equation, y(t) = cos(3t)x(t), isn't part of this problem?

For a transformation T, Tis linear if T(a + b) = T(a) + T(b) and if T(ka) = kT(a), where a and b are in the domain of T, and k is a scalar constant.
Thank you for your reply Mark,

I am positive that the second equation is for a different problem because it is delineated as (2); instead of being a part of problem 1. However, maybe we should switch over to the 2nd problem if we can't discover the answer to the first one.

So, do I start by creating y1 & y2 and add them together?

y1(t) + y2(t) = cos(3t)[x1(t) + x2(t)]

What do I do next?
 
Lapse said:
Thank you for your reply Mark,

I am positive that the second equation is for a different problem because it is delineated as (2); instead of being a part of problem 1. However, maybe we should switch over to the 2nd problem if we can't discover the answer to the first one.

So, do I start by creating y1 & y2 and add them together?

y1(t) + y2(t) = cos(3t)[x1(t) + x2(t)]

What do I do next?
You're still going at this backwards.
From post #1: y(t) = cos(3t)x(t)
For linearity, you need to show (1) that ##y(t_1 + t_2) = y(t_1) + y(t_2)## and (2) that ##y(kt_1) = ky(t_1)##.
So for (1), ##y(t_1 + t_2) = \cos(3(t_1 + t_2))x(t_1 + t_2)##. Does that work out to ##y(t_1) + y(t_2)##?

It would be helpful if you showed us the exact wording of the problem. If it's a problem in a textbook, upload a photo of the problem. As presented in this thread, there seems to be a lot of missing information.
 

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