How Do Tensor and Wedge Products Relate in Differential Geometry?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter cristo
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Tensor Wedge
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between tensor products and wedge products in the context of differential geometry, specifically focusing on antisymmetric tensors and their representation as 2-forms. Participants explore the mathematical properties and implications of these concepts, including the use of antisymmetry and the definitions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to demonstrate that the expression C_{ij}dx^i\otimes dx^j corresponds to the 2-form C_{ij}dx^i\wedge dx^j, noting the antisymmetry of the tensor C.
  • Another participant suggests invoking the antisymmetry of C to progress in the proof, leading to a formulation involving both tensor and wedge products.
  • A participant discusses viewing antisymmetric tensors as a subspace or a quotient space of usual tensors, proposing that this perspective might clarify the relationship between the two forms.
  • There is mention of the algebraic properties of tensors, comparing them to polynomials and discussing how coefficients relate to tensor expressions.
  • Some participants express confusion regarding the conventions used in the definitions and the implications of the wedge product notation.
  • Concerns are raised about potential conflicts between the desired correspondence and the expected values of forms when evaluated on standard unit squares.
  • Questions arise about the meaning of "corresponds" in the context of tensor and wedge products, with participants seeking clarification on whether summation is intended.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying interpretations of the relationship between tensor and wedge products, with some agreeing on the mathematical properties while others raise questions and concerns about definitions and conventions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the definitions and conventions surrounding the correspondence between tensor and wedge products may vary, leading to confusion. There is also mention of the potential for different interpretations depending on the context of use, particularly in relation to volume forms.

  • #31
i am a little puzzled no one who went through bachmans book seemed to notice this discrepancy.

probably ordinary tensors were never considered there.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
lets see. if we consider the operation of interchanging entrioes in a 2 tensor, i.e. taking atensb to btens a, we geta linear endomorphism of the space of 2 tensors that is an involution, i.e. satisfies T^2 = I or T^2-I = 0. thus its minimal polynomial factors as (T-I)(T+I), and we hVE EIGENVALUES 1 and -1.

hence the space should decompose into eigenspaces of T-I and T+I, namely symmetric and antisymmetric tensors.

so this seems to be why every 2 tensor decomposes this way, from the point of view of spectral theory.but what to saY ABoUT 3 tensors??
 
  • #33
If we were to generalise this to general 3-forms. \omega \in T^{0}_{3} such that T_{ijk}=-T_{jik}. The thing I am trying to prove is that n-forms form a vector space, and to find the dimension of this space. To make generalisation easier, could you please clarify the following reasoning.

Would it be correct to split T^{0}_{3} into its symmetric and anti symmetric parts, S and A such that;

S_{ijk}=\frac{1}{2}(T_{ijk}+T_{jik})

and

A_{ijk}=\frac{1}{2}(T_{ijk}-T_{jik})

Then, as \omega[/tex] is by definition anti-symmetric, its coefficients must have the form of the A&#039;s. <br /> <br /> 1) The dimension would be the number of independent components of A yes? for the 2 form, this is easily seen from the upper triangular (not including the diagonal), which is just n(n-1)/2. My problem is trying to generalise three forms and upwards. Mainly because I can visualise the permutations very well.<br /> <br /> Thanks
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
6K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K