How Do You Calculate the Center of Mass with Non-Constant Density Using Vectors?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the center of mass for an object with non-constant density, specifically focusing on the mathematical formulation and integration methods involved. Participants explore the implications of varying density on the calculation process, particularly in relation to vector representation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant, Ataman, presents a method for calculating the center of mass using integrals, assuming constant density, and expresses confusion about how to adapt this method for varying density.
  • Ataman questions the applicability of the dot product in the context of varying density and suggests that density should be treated as a function of the position vector.
  • Another participant points out that the derivation provided by Ataman assumes constant density and does not involve a vector representation of density.
  • There is a suggestion that density, being a scalar, does not require a dot product, and that the integration could be separated into components, which may not simplify the process as intended.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of density in the context of the center of mass calculation. There is no consensus on the best approach to handle varying density, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity introduced by non-constant density, indicating that the assumptions made in the initial derivation may not hold in more complex scenarios. The discussion reflects varying interpretations of how to represent and integrate density in the context of vector calculus.

Ataman
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I am looking for a way to find the center mass of an object whose area is enclosed by x^{2} and \sqrt{x} without computing the x and y separately (a great deal of paperwork).

So...

M\overrightarrow{R_{cm}} = \int \overrightarrow{r} dm

\sigma = \frac{M}{A} = \frac{dm}{dA}

\sigma A \overrightarrow{R_{cm}} = \int \sigma \overrightarrow{r} dA

\overrightarrow{R_{cm}} = \frac{\int\int \sigma \overrightarrow{r} dy dx } {\int \sigma (f(x)-g(x))dx}

Because they are constants, the sigmas cancel and I eventually end up with...

\overrightarrow{R_{cm}} = \frac{\int^1_0\int^{x^{2}}_{\sqrt{x}} (xi+yj) dydx}{\int^1_0 x^{2} - \sqrt{x} dx}

(The answer is \frac{9}{20}i + \frac{9}{20}j)

But what happens when sigma/density is not constant, but is given a value say... xi or something like that? Obviously taking the dot product will not work, and I am unsure about the cross product (I haven't done a lot of vectors).

-Ataman
 
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What do you mean that the dot product won't work? I don't see any dot product in the above derivation.
 
In the above derivation, the density is constant, so it is not defined by a vector.

What I am looking for is a case where there is a varying density within the region.

-Ataman
 
Ataman said:
In the above derivation, the density is constant, so it is not defined by a vector.

What I am looking for is a case where there is a varying density within the region.

-Ataman

Why define it as a vector? Why not make it as a function of the position vector?
 
That's what I meant. Excuse me.

-Ataman
 
Ataman said:
That's what I meant. Excuse me.

-Ataman

Then don't you know the answer?
 
Then it is still not a vector. "Density" is a numeric value, not a vector function. You don't need a "dot product", you just have a scalar product- multiply each component of the position vector by the density function.

You should notice that you aren't really doing less work that if you did x and y as separate integrals. Since \int u\vec{i}+ v\vec{j} dx= \int u\vec{i}dx+ \int v\vec{j}dx you are just writing two integrals as if they were one.
 

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