How Do You Derive the Energy Equation for a Rubber Band?

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving the energy equation for a rubber band, specifically focusing on the relationship between tension, length, and temperature. The original poster presents a central equation and seeks to derive the energy equation while exploring the dependencies of internal energy on temperature and length.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the central equation involving changes in internal energy and tension, questioning how to express certain derivatives correctly. There is an attempt to relate the energy equation to the equation of state for the rubber band.

Discussion Status

Some participants are exploring the relationships between different thermodynamic variables and equations. There is a mix of correct and incorrect assertions, with guidance being offered on how to rearrange equations and apply Maxwell's relations. The discussion is ongoing, with no explicit consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating through the complexities of thermodynamic identities and relationships, with some expressing confusion about specific derivatives and their implications. The original poster's attempts and subsequent corrections highlight the iterative nature of the problem-solving process.

decerto
Messages
84
Reaction score
2

Homework Statement



The equation of state for a rubber band with temperature T is \mathcal{F}=aT\left[\frac{L}{L_0}-\left(\frac{L_0}{L}\right)^2\right]

Where \mathcal{F} is the tension, L is the stretched length and L_0 is the unstretched length

a) Write the Central Equation for the rubber band

b) Derive the energy equation for the rubber band \left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T

c) Show that U is a function of T only

Homework Equations



dU=dQ+dW

dU=\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial T}\right)_LdT +\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_TdL

The Attempt at a Solution



a) For the central equation some variant of dU=TdS+\mathcal{F}dL I pressume?

b) Comparing the two relevant equations \left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T=\mathcal{F} ?

c)No real idea how to show this
 
Physics news on Phys.org
decerto said:
a) For the central equation some variant of dU=TdS+\mathcal{F}dL I pressume?

OK

b) Comparing the two relevant equations \left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T=\mathcal{F} ?

This is incorrect. Note that from dU=TdS+\mathcal{F}dL you can get \left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_S=\mathcal{F}. But you need to get an expression for \left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T.

One approach is to rearrange your central equation for dS and then use one of your relevant equations to substitute for dU. That should express dS in terms of dT and dL. Then try to see what to do.

c)No real idea how to show this

Once you get the answer for (b) this will be easy.
 
With dS=\frac{1}{T}dU-\frac{F}{T}dL I'm slightly confused on how to incorporate dT dU=\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial T}\right)_LdT +\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_TdL is wrong yes? I think I just made that up.
 
Ok how about this.

dU=TdS +\mathcal{F}dL

\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T=T\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial L}\right)_T +\mathcal{F}\left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial L}\right)_T

\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T=T\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial L}\right)_T +\mathcal{F}

Then using the maxwell relation \left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{F}}{\partial T}\right)_L=\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial L}\right)_T

We have

\left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T=T\left(\frac{\partial \mathcal{F}}{\partial T}\right)_L +\mathcal{F}

Using the equation of state we then have \left(\frac{\partial U}{\partial L}\right)_T=2\mathcal{F}
 
OK. This is good. But, check your signs in the Maxwell relation. Note ##\mathcal{F}## for the rubber band corresponds to ##-P## for a usual thermodynamic system.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
So its zero which makes the next part trivial, thanks for the help.
 

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
15
Views
2K
  • · Replies 53 ·
2
Replies
53
Views
6K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
9K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
7K