How Does a Diagonal Metric Affect the Symmetry and Tensor Equations in Space?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Funzies
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Metric Space
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of a diagonal metric in the context of maximally symmetric spaces, particularly focusing on the behavior of Christoffel symbols and the Riemann tensor. Participants explore the relationships between symmetry, coordinate dependence, and the resulting tensor equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents equations for the Christoffel symbols in a diagonal metric and notes a contradiction when calculating the Riemann tensor, questioning the conditions under which it should be zero.
  • Another participant shares results from GrTensor for a specific diagonal line element, highlighting discrepancies in the Christoffel symbols and expressing uncertainty about the significance of logarithmic terms.
  • A third participant distinguishes between "maximally symmetric space" and "diagonal space," suggesting that the symmetry is intrinsic while the diagonal form is coordinate-dependent, and questions the assumption that different components of the metric must be equal.
  • A later reply challenges the necessity of Killing vectors for a space to be maximally symmetric, indicating a potential misunderstanding of the conditions required for maximal symmetry.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between diagonal metrics and maximal symmetry, with no consensus reached on the implications of these concepts or the calculations presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the assumptions regarding the equality of metric components in maximally symmetric spaces may not hold in all coordinate representations, and the implications of this for the Riemann tensor calculations remain unresolved.

Funzies
Messages
20
Reaction score
0
Hey guys! I am considering a space with a diagonal metric, which is maximally symmetric.

It can be proven that in that case of a diagonal metric the following equations for the Christoffel symbols hold:
\Gamma^{\gamma}_{\alpha \beta} = 0
\Gamma^{\beta}_{\alpha \alpha} = -(1/g_{\beta\beta})\partial_{\beta}g_{\alpha\alpha}
\Gamma^{\beta}_{\alpha \beta} = \partial_{\alpha}\ln(\sqrt{|g_{\beta\beta}|})
\Gamma^{\alpha}_{\alpha \alpha} = \partial_{\alpha}\ln(\sqrt{|g_{\alpha\alpha}|})

Furthermore: for a maximally symmetric space we have for the Riemann tensor:
R_{\rho\sigma\mu\nu} = R/12(g_{\rho\mu}g_{\sigma\nu}-g_{\rho\nu}g_{\sigma\mu}), where R is the Ricci scalar.

Given these equations, I come across a contradiction. From the above equation for the Riemann tensor we easily see that if it has three different indices, it must be zero (IF the metric is diagonal). However, if I plug in the Christoffelsymbols into the definition of the Riemanntensor expressed in Christoffel symbols and their derivatives, I do not find that this is zero in general. Does anyone know what is going wrong here?

EDIT: For a maximally symmetric space, three indices cannot be unequal, but for a diagonal space this might not be the case. How is this all related?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
If I put the following diagonal line element into GrTensor, for coordinates (t,x,y,z),

-p(t,x,y,z)*d[t]^2+q(t,x,y,z)*d[x]^2+r(t,x,y,z)*d[y]^2+s(t,x,y,z)*d[z]^2;

I get the following (just a partial set).

\Gamma^t{}_{tt} = \frac{1}{2} \frac{\partial_t \, p}{p}
\Gamma^x{}_{tt} = -\frac{1}{2} \frac{\partial_x \, p}{q}
\Gamma^t{}_{xt} = \frac{1}{2} \frac{\partial_x \, p}{p}

They look similar, except for a missing factor of 1/2. The ln's complicate things a bit - are they really that useful?

I was rather surprised to see an apparently non_zero term pop out for R_txty myself. I'm not sure if it's really nonzero, or just didn't simplify:

R_{txty} = 1/4\,{\frac {-2\, \left( {\frac {\partial ^{2}}{\partial x\partial y}}<br /> p \left( t,x,y,z \right) \right) p \left( t,x,y,z \right) q \left( t,<br /> x,y,z \right) r \left( t,x,y,z \right) + \left( {\frac {\partial }{<br /> \partial y}}p \left( t,x,y,z \right) \right) \left( {\frac {<br /> \partial }{\partial x}}p \left( t,x,y,z \right) \right) q \left( t,x,<br /> y,z \right) r \left( t,x,y,z \right) + \left( {\frac {\partial }{<br /> \partial x}}p \left( t,x,y,z \right) \right) \left( {\frac {<br /> \partial }{\partial y}}q \left( t,x,y,z \right) \right) p \left( t,x,<br /> y,z \right) r \left( t,x,y,z \right) + \left( {\frac {\partial }{<br /> \partial y}}p \left( t,x,y,z \right) \right) \left( {\frac {<br /> \partial }{\partial x}}r \left( t,x,y,z \right) \right) p \left( t,x,<br /> y,z \right) q \left( t,x,y,z \right) }{p \left( t,x,y,z \right) q<br /> \left( t,x,y,z \right) r \left( t,x,y,z \right) }}<br />
 
When you say "maximally symmetric space" and "diagonal space," you're talking about two different kinds of things. The symmetry is intrinsic, but the diagonal form of the metric is coordinate-dependent.

I think the only maximally symmetric spaces in 3+1 dimensions are Minkowski space, de Sitter space, and anti de Sitter space. Have you tried, for example, checking your calculations in the special case of de Sitter space?

Funzies said:
From the above equation for the Riemann tensor we easily see that if it has three different indices, it must be zero (IF the metric is diagonal).
What if the different components of the metric are unequal?

Funzies said:
EDIT: For a maximally symmetric space, three indices cannot be unequal, but for a diagonal space this might not be the case. How is this all related?
Are you thinking that the different components of the metric have to be equal because it's maximally symmetric? That's not true. The symmetry doesn't have to be manifest when you write the metric in certain coordinates.
 
Given the line element, I don't see any requirement that there be ANY Killing vectors, much less the maximum possible number (which would be a requirement to be maximally symmetric space, if I understand correctly).
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 49 ·
2
Replies
49
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
816
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K