How does a dielectric increase capacitance, conceptually.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the conceptual understanding of how a dielectric material increases the capacitance of a capacitor. Participants explore the relationship between voltage, charge, and the electric field in the context of capacitors in DC circuits.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Kcodon expresses confusion about how inserting a dielectric increases capacitance, noting that it decreases field strength and voltage, questioning if this leads to a change in capacitance in a DC circuit.
  • Another participant agrees that while the equilibrium voltage remains constant, the amount of charge must change, suggesting that capacitance is related to the ability to store charge.
  • A participant proposes that the limitation on charge accumulation on a capacitor plate is due to repulsion from accumulated charge, questioning how more charge can accumulate without an increase in voltage.
  • In response, another participant emphasizes the link between charge accumulation and the electric field, explaining that a dielectric allows more charge to accumulate by providing additional opposite charge, which mitigates repulsion among like charges.
  • Kcodon expresses appreciation for this explanation, indicating that it clarified their understanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the relationship between voltage, charge, and capacitance, but there is some contention regarding the role of the electric field and the mechanics of charge accumulation on capacitor plates.

Contextual Notes

Participants discuss the conceptual framework without resolving all underlying assumptions about the behavior of electric fields and charges in capacitors with dielectrics.

kcodon
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Hi all,

I'm a little stumped with how the dielectric increases capacitance. The general solutions all involve using the formulas, but don't really treat it conceptually. I realize that inserting a dielectric decreases field strength, and hence decreases the voltage across the capacitor. But if I have a capacitor in a DC circuit, then shouldn't the voltage across the capacitor remain the same, i.e. equal to the voltage of the cell? Then there would be no change in voltage (or charge) so no change in capacitance? This should be easy to test, unfortunately I lack a voltmeter or a capacitor.

Any insight would be appreciated,

Kcodon
 
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kcodon said:
But if I have a capacitor in a DC circuit, then shouldn't the voltage across the capacitor remain the same, i.e. equal to the voltage of the cell? Then there would be no change in voltage (or charge) so no change in capacitance?

Yes, the equilibrium voltage should not change, that means that the amount of charge must change. C=Q/V, so capacitance is a measure of "charge storing" or "charge separating" ability. A big capacitor can store more charge for the same voltage.
 
atyy said:
Yes, the equilibrium voltage should not change, that means that the amount of charge must change.

But I believe the reason for only a certain amount of charge being stored on a plate of the capacitor is that as charge builds up on the plate it gets to a point where all the accumulated charge repels any additional charge, with an "force" equal and opposite to that provided by the cell voltage. I don't think it is linked to the electric field across the plates So how does more charge accumulate when there isn't a greater voltage to "squeeze" it onto the plates?
 
kcodon said:
I don't think it is linked to the electric field across the plates

It is intimately linked to the electric field between the plates. But we can also work with your picture. Like charges accumulate on the capacitor plate because of push from the battery. But they also don't want to accumulate on the capacitor plate because they are squeezed with each other. And those two balance. So if you put a dielectric in the middle, you are providing more opposite charge near the like charges, so the like charges are not so unhappy about being squeezed, and the same voltage can push more charge onto the capacitor plate.

Edit: I assumed you know the picture about the dielectric being polarized: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/electric/dielec.html.
 
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atyy said:
So if you put a dielectric in the middle, you are providing more opposite charge near the like charges, so the like charges are not so unhappy about being squeezed, and the same voltage can push more charge onto the capacitor plate.

Thanks so much atyy, this is the little explanation I have been looking for all along! I love the little lightbulb moments like this, even if it is someone else that turns the bulb on!

Thanks again,

Kcodon
 

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