How Does a One-Dimensional Creature Measure Length on a Circle?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MrNerd
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    deriving
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

This discussion revolves around a problem from "Exploring Black Holes," specifically regarding a one-dimensional creature measuring length on a two-dimensional circle. The focus is on deriving an expression for the length of a measuring rod along the circle, represented by the variable dl, in relation to changes in the variable dx.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to manipulate equation [5] to express dl² in terms of dx², questioning the role of certain factors in the equation. Some participants suggest simplifying the expression into a single fraction, while others explore algebraic manipulations to clarify the relationship between the variables.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, with one individual reporting a breakthrough in understanding after re-evaluating their approach. There is an exchange of tips regarding formatting equations for clarity, indicating a collaborative atmosphere.

Contextual Notes

There is a mention of potential confusion regarding the presence of certain terms in the equations, particularly the factor of r², which some participants are trying to reconcile with their algebraic manipulations. The original poster expresses uncertainty about an identity related to the equation.

MrNerd
Messages
81
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


This is from Exploring Black Holes, Query 1, page G-3. It involves a one dimensional creature on a two dimensional circle.

Constant dl but different dx. Collect terms in equation [5]. Show that the result can be written dl[itex]^{2}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{dx^{2}}{1 - x^{2}/r^{2}}[/itex]
Equation [5], involving dl, is for finding the length of a measuring rod of length dl along the circle, laid by the one dimensional creature.


Homework Equations


Equations in text for the chapter so far:
[1] r[itex]^{2}[/itex] = x[itex]^{2}[/itex] + y[itex]^{2}[/itex]
[2] y[itex]^{2}[/itex] = r[itex]^{2}[/itex] - x[itex]^{2}[/itex]
[3] 2ydy = -2xdy r = constant
[4] dy = -[itex]\frac{xdx}{y}[/itex] = -[itex]\frac{xdx}{(r^{2} - x^{2})^{1/2}}[/itex] r = constant
[5] dl[itex]^{2}[/itex] = dx[itex]^{2}[/itex] + dy[itex]^{2}[/itex] = dx[itex]^{2}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{x^{2}dx^{2}}{(r^{2} - x^{2}}[/itex] r = constant

The Attempt at a Solution


I've realized fairly easily that the bottom part of the equation I'm trying to get has an r[itex]^{2}[/itex] factored from the bottom. I haven't quite figured out where it went, though. The closest I've gotten is:

dy = -[itex]\frac{xdx}{(r^{2} - x^{2})^{1/2}}[/itex]
Solving for dx, I get dx = -[itex]\frac{dy(r^{2} - x^{2})^{1/2}}{x}[/itex]
I then input this into equation [5], getting dl[itex]^{2}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{dy^{2}(r^{2} - x^{2})^{2}}{x^{2}}[/itex] + [itex]\frac{x^{2}dx^{2}}{(r^{2} - x^{2})}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{dy^{2}(r^{2} - x^{2})^{2} + x^{4}dx^{2}}{x^{2}(r^{2} - x^{2})}[/itex]
Then I moved the denominator over, dl[itex]^{2}[/itex]x[itex]^{2}[/itex](r[itex]^{2}[/itex] - x[itex]^{2}[/itex]) = dy[itex]^{2}[/itex](r[itex]^{2}[/itex] - x[itex]^{2}[/itex])[itex]^{2}[/itex] + x[itex]^{4}[/itex]dx[itex]^{2}[/itex]
Substituting the dy gives dl[itex]^{2}[/itex]x[itex]^{2}[/itex](r[itex]^{2}[/itex] - x[itex]^{2}[/itex]) = x[itex]^{2}[/itex]dx[itex]^{2}[/itex] + x[itex]^{4}[/itex]dx[itex]^{2}[/itex]
Dividing the things by the dl gives dl[itex]^{2}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{dx^{2}(1 + x^{2})}{(r^{2} - x^{2})}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{dx^{2}(1 + x^{2})}{r^{2}(1 - x^{2}/r^{2})}[/itex]
Clearly, the only stuck thing is the [itex]\frac{(1 + x^{1})}{r^{2}}[/itex]. Does this mean anything, like it equals 1 or something, and I've just forgotten an identity? I've also tried a couple of other methods, but I would say this is pretty much what I get to. It may not make perfect sense, but I was running out of ideas, and this was the last thing I tried.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Just look at [5] above and see where you can make the whole thing a single fraction.
 
Aha! I got it now!

I did:
dl[itex]^{2}[/itex] = [itex]\frac{dx^{2}(r^{2} - x^{2}) + x^{2}dx^{2}}{(r^{2} - x^{2})}[/itex]

[tex]dl^{2} = \frac{dx^{2}(r^{2} - x^{2} + x^{2})}{(r^{2} - x^{2})}[/tex]

Canceling out the x[itex]^{2}[/itex]s and dividing r[itex]^{2}[/itex] from top and bottom gets the answer.

I knew there was an obvious answer, I just couldn't see it. I guess I had a brain fart. Thanks for the help.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MrNerd - a tip
Instead of using a slew of itex /itex pairs of tags, put one itex tag at the beginning of your equation, and a /itex tag at the end of the equation.

For the 2nd equation above, I used a tex and /tex pair of tags. This makes fractions a little larger and easier to see.
 

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
  • · Replies 105 ·
4
Replies
105
Views
11K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
1K