How does curved space create gravity?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of how curved space and spacetime relate to the experience of gravitational force, particularly in the context of stationary objects near massive planets. Participants explore analogies, theoretical implications, and the distinctions between space and spacetime curvature.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants reference the "ball on a rubber sheet" analogy to illustrate how warped space affects light paths but express confusion about its applicability to stationary objects experiencing gravity.
  • One participant argues that a person cannot "statically float" near a massive planet without experiencing freefall, suggesting that a force must be applied to maintain a stationary position.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between curvature of space and curvature of spacetime, asserting that it is the latter that causes movement towards a planet.
  • A participant mentions that a new theory of gravity could potentially provide better explanations but notes that no such theory currently exists.
  • One participant suggests that the violation of geodesics in spacetime creates gravity, indicating a possible theoretical perspective.
  • Links to external resources are provided by participants for further exploration of the concepts discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the role of curvature in gravity, with some emphasizing the distinction between space and spacetime. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the nature of gravitational force and the adequacy of existing analogies.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in the rubber-sheet analogy and the need for a clearer understanding of how curvature affects stationary objects, indicating that assumptions about motion and forces may not be fully addressed.

paulicator
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
We've all seen the "ball on a rubber sheet" analogy, showing how warped space near a planet can cause a light beam to alter its path. We are told that the light is actually following the shortest path in curved space.

When it comes to a *stationary* object near a planet, however, I have a harder time making sense of things.

If I assume a person (for example) is statically floating near a massive planet, *why* does curvature of space cause the person to experience a gravitational force?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
paulicator said:
We've all seen the "ball on a rubber sheet" analogy, showing how warped space near a planet can cause a light beam to alter its path. We are told that the light is actually following the shortest path in curved space.

When it comes to a *stationary* object near a planet, however, I have a harder time making sense of things.

If I assume a person (for example) is statically floating near a massive planet, *why* does curvature of space cause the person to experience a gravitational force?
You can't "statically float" near a massive planet. If no force is applied to you, you will be in freefall and not feel a force, but you will not remain "stationary" with the planet. If a force is applied to you to keep you "stationary" with the planet, you will of course feel that force.
 
paulicator said:
*why* does curvature of space cause the person to experience a gravitational force?
The only thing that could possibly give you some sort of answer to that is a new theory of gravity that has an even better agreement with experiments than GR, and also describes things in different terms. There is no such theory today, and even if there was, it would give you a new question to ask.
 
It's curvature of spacetime, not curvature of space. That makes a big difference!

To make an analogy, consider two airplanes flying north, starting from nearby points along the Earth's equator. Each plane continues to fly straight north by its own reckoning, along its own meridian of longitude. As they proceed further north, the meridians converge towards the North Pole, so the planes approach each other even though they started out flying in parallel straight lines.

Of course, in the example above, the airplanes have to move in order to make this work. But now suppose the two dimensions on the sphere are not both spatial dimensions, but instead the "north-south" direction represents time and the "east-west" direction represents a one-dimensional space, that is, the two planes both move back or forth along the same line. As time passes, the planes automatically proceed "northward" in time, and the spatial "east-west" distance steadily decreases.
 
jtbell said:
Of course, in the example above, the airplanes have to move in order to make this work. But now suppose the two dimensions on the sphere are not both spatial dimensions, but instead the "north-south" direction represents time and the "east-west" direction represents a one-dimensional space, that is, the two planes both move back or forth along the same line. As time passes, the planes automatically proceed "northward" in time, and the spatial "east-west" distance steadily decreases.

And note that there is no force required to bring the two planes together.
 
paulicator said:
If I assume a person (for example) is statically floating near a massive planet, *why* does curvature of space cause the person to experience a gravitational force?
As jtbell said: Curvature of space alone doesn't cause this, therefore the rubber-sheet analogy is not good explanation of gravity. Curvature of space-time causes the person to start moving in space towards the planet.

Here a strongly simplified explanation of curvature space vs. curvature of space-time effects:
http://www.physics.ucla.edu/demoweb..._and_general_relativity/curved_spacetime.html
 
I think by taking Einstein's view violation of geodesi creates the gravity and curved space time
 
I think I found a pretty good description here http://www.allsubjects.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4&sid=5c02ae9e2b2a7d9cff07cb87c89a0263"
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

Replies
82
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
7K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 78 ·
3
Replies
78
Views
10K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K