Gravity Illusion: Questions on Space-Time Curvature Granularity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of gravity, particularly whether it is an illusion stemming from the curvature of space caused by mass. Participants explore concepts related to spacetime curvature, the behavior of matter within that curvature, and the implications for understanding gravity at both macroscopic and quantum scales.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the characterization of gravity as an illusion, suggesting it is better understood as a consequence of curved spacetime.
  • There is uncertainty regarding how gravity operates on the quantum scale, with some noting that precise experiments are lacking.
  • One participant emphasizes that mass, or more broadly stress-energy, curves spacetime rather than just space.
  • Another participant references a well-known remark by Wheeler, stating that spacetime tells matter how to move, while matter tells spacetime how to curve.
  • It is proposed that curvature exists even in empty space, and tidal forces can be measured to detect the presence of distant masses.
  • A practical application of gravity gradiometry in oil and gas exploration is mentioned, highlighting its use in analyzing subsurface structures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether gravity is an illusion, with some rejecting this notion outright. The discussion includes multiple competing perspectives on the nature of gravity and spacetime curvature, indicating that consensus has not been reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the understanding of gravity at the quantum level remains an open question, and there are technical reasons for the terminology used in discussing spacetime curvature.

gaaah
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I wonder if someone would field a beginner's muse I had: If gravity is just an illusion of the curvature of space caused by mass, does not the matter within that space follow the curve? and what is the granularity of that curvature? Does the curvature exist in the space between the nucleus and the electrons? Is the nucleus itself curved? Are the electrons curved?
 
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I'm not sure it's correct to say that gravity is an illusion. Rather, for a long time we interpreted it as a force, but now we regard it as curved spacetime. Matter does, indeed, follow curved paths as a result.

However, exactly how gravity works on the quantum scale is an open question. We don't have a complete answer, largely because we haven't done experiments precise enough to detect gravity at that scale.
 
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gaaah said:
If gravity is just an illusion
It isn’t an illusion. And I am pretty sure that no professional source characterized it that way.
 
gaaah said:
the curvature of space caused by mass

Mass (more generally, stress-energy) doesn't curve space, it curves spacetime.
 
gaaah said:
I wonder if someone would field a beginner's muse I had: If gravity is just an illusion of the curvature of space caused by mass, does not the matter within that space follow the curve? and what is the granularity of that curvature? Does the curvature exist in the space between the nucleus and the electrons? Is the nucleus itself curved? Are the electrons curved?

I wouldn't say that gravity is an illusion, but I would say it's a consequence of the curvature of space-time. I'm not sure what you mean by "matter within that space follows the curve", though there is a well known remark by Wheeler.
Wheeler said:
Spacetime tells matter how to move; matter tells spacetime how to curve.

Note that for technical reasons Wheeler says "matter" and not "mass". That is because there are other properties of matter other than "mass" that contribute to space-time curvature.

The curvature, in the form of the Riemann curvature tensor, does exist in the empty space where there is no matter. For example, the sun is a lump of matter, and it causes space-time curvature here on the Earth, which we can see and measure directly in terms of the tidal forces that are present on the Earth. An instrument known as the "gravity gradiometer", and also as the "Forward mass detector" can use these local tidal force measurements to detect the presence and distribution of distant masses. The underlying theory has practical usage for the purposes of oil exploration.

The Gravity of Oil and Gas Exploration
By Trent Jacobs 21 Jan 2015

A Cold War technology invented to stealthily guide the United States Navy’s nuclear submarine fleet is now serving a much more peaceful purpose: aiding in the search for oil and gas deposits. Far removed from the ocean depths, gravity gradiometry has evolved to become an increasingly sophisticated aerial technology that has been used to rapidly analyze the subsurface of every continent in the world.

Since its introduction to the oil and gas industry in the 1990s, airborne gravity gradiometer (AGG) technology has become an increasingly popular greenfield exploration tool because of its ability to analyze wide areas onboard airplanes for a fraction of the cost of 3D and 3D seismic surveys.
 

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