How Does Forcing Magnets Together Affect Spatial Energy and Distortion?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the effects of forcing magnets with like poles closer together on the spatial energy and potential distortion of the space between them. It examines whether the energy in this space increases due to the applied force and how this energy state changes when the magnets are withdrawn.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how the space between two magnets with like poles is distorted when forced closer together and whether this space experiences a higher energy state proportional to the force applied.
  • Another participant suggests that work is done to bring like poles together, storing additional energy in the magnetic field, and notes that the B field is compressed in this process.
  • There is a mention of Hooke's law and its applicability, with a participant indicating that the force between magnets does not follow a linear relationship and may instead follow an inverse law depending on the magnets' shape and orientation.
  • A participant states that the space between the magnets is essentially 'just there' and allows for the observation of fields, asserting that empty space is linear and fields will add together.
  • One participant raises a question about how the distortion of linear space can be measured, indicating a curiosity about quantifying these effects.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the forces involved and the implications for the space between the magnets. There is no consensus on how to measure the distortion of space or the exact nature of the energy changes involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the force between magnets may not follow linear relationships and that assumptions about the nature of the magnetic fields and space may vary. The discussion includes unresolved questions about measurement and the specific effects of magnet arrangement.

ChrisWhewell
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I'm curious to know how the space between two magnets arranged so their like poles are forced to be nearer to one another is distorted. Is the energy in the space between such poles at a higher state than the surroundings, in an amount proportional to the force exerted in bringing the magnets poles together, or is the space un-affected ?

Similarly, is the space between two magnets that are stuck to one another affected when they are withdrawn, out to say 1 mm ?
 
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Your intuition is right on this. To bring two magnets together with like poles facing each other, you have to push them together, doing work. This additional energy is stored in the magnetic field. In terms of lines of force, the B field is being compressed. To bring magnets together with unlike poles facing each other, the magnets exert an inward force on your hands, doing work on you, and the resulting B field has less energy.
 
Bill_K said:
Your intuition is right on this. To bring two magnets together with like poles facing each other, you have to push them together, doing work. This additional energy is stored in the magnetic field. In terms of lines of force, the B field is being compressed. To bring magnets together with unlike poles facing each other, the magnets exert an inward force on your hands, doing work on you, and the resulting B field has less energy.

hooke's law F=kx, can integrate to calculate the work from given displacement limits, but I'm wondering about what, if anything, happens to the space between the magnets.
 
Hooke's law applies in a linear regime. The force between two magnets does not have a linear relationship[ with distance. It will be some sort of inverse law, depending on the actual shape and orientation of the magnets. Between the poles of two very long bar magnets, you will get an approximate inverse square law. Not Hooke's Law trerritory.

The space in between is sort of 'just there' and it's somewhere the fields can be observed in. For EM waves and fields, empty space is linear so the fields will just 'add together'. The mass of your magnets would be doing it's little bit of space distortion to account for the minuscule gravitational force between them.
 
sophiecentaur said:
...empty space is linear ...

sophiecentaur said:
... The mass of your magnets would be doing it's little bit of space distortion...

How can the distortion of linear space be measured ?
 

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