How does matter know how to move?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the question of how particles of matter influence each other's movement across distances in the context of gravitational fields and spacetime curvature. Participants explore theoretical implications, mechanisms of interaction, and the nature of gravity as described by General Relativity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that matter influences the curvature of spacetime locally, which then affects distant matter, referencing the perihelion precession of planets as an example.
  • Others question the mechanism by which matter influences spacetime curvature, drawing analogies to everyday interactions like billiard balls and expressing confusion about how space can have a shape.
  • One participant mentions the Einstein Field Equation as a description of how matter influences spacetime, but challenges the notion of a "mechanism" in the everyday sense.
  • Another participant suggests that the question of how action at a distance works is fundamentally deep and remains unresolved, indicating a lack of understanding in the community.
  • There is a repeated inquiry into the specific mechanisms that allow particles to move from one location to another in a vacuum, particularly within gravitational fields.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of interaction and the nature of gravity, indicating that multiple competing perspectives exist without a clear consensus on the underlying principles.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the mechanisms of gravity and spacetime curvature, suggesting that the discussion is constrained by the complexity of the concepts involved and the current state of knowledge in physics.

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[Moderator's Note: This thread was split off from a previous thread because of a change of topic.]

JonathanCollins said:
how can 1 particle of matter influence another particle in a remote location to move towards it with only empty space in between?

It doesn't. Matter influences the curvature of spacetime locally; the curvature of spacetime propagates to distant locations; and the curvature of spacetime at those distant locations tells the matter there how to move. In a static or nearly static situation, the "propagation" part is not easily tested; but there are small effects that show it. One of them is the perihelion precession of the planets; that wouldn't be there if gravity were an "instantaneous" Newtonian force acting through empty space.
 
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PeterDonis said:
It doesn't. Matter influences the curvature of spacetime locally; the curvature of spacetime propagates to distant locations; and the curvature of spacetime at those distant locations tells the matter there how to move. In a static or nearly static situation, the "propagation" part is not easily tested; but there are small effects that show it. One of them is the perihelion precession of the planets; that wouldn't be there if gravity were an "instantaneous" Newtonian force acting through empty space.
But if as you suggest matter influences the curvature of spacetime locally through what mechanism does it achieve this? A billiard ball moves along a flat table as a result of a collision by the cue transferring its momentum to the ball; after it has left the cue it cannot be persuaded to return to the cue without a change of momentum occurring in the opposite direction. If you put the ball inside a straight tube it wouldn't move; if you put the ball inside a curved tube it still wouldn't move. How can space which is essentially void have a shape? What actually causes a particle of matter to move from location A to location B in the vacuum of space within a gravitational field?
 
JonathanCollins said:
if as you suggest matter influences the curvature of spacetime locally through what mechanism does it achieve this?

The Einstein Field Equation describes how it happens. I don't know what exactly you would consider a "mechanism", but apparently you mean something like "anything that looks like a mechanism I would see in everyday life" (see below). That's not a good heuristic.

JonathanCollins said:
A billiard ball moves along a flat table as a result of a collision by the cue transferring its momentum to the ball

Is this what you mean by a "mechanism"? Do you understand how much complexity underlies this process?

JonathanCollins said:
after it has left the cue it cannot be persuaded to return to the cue without a change of momentum occurring in the opposite direction

So what?

JonathanCollins said:
If you put the ball inside a straight tube it wouldn't move; if you put the ball inside a curved tube it still wouldn't move.

You mean, it wouldn't move if no other interactions were present and the tube were horizontal (or floating in free space, far from all other objects). Again, so what?

JonathanCollins said:
How can space which is essentially void have a shape?

GR doesn't say gravity is a manifestation of space curvature; it says it's a manifestation of spacetime curvature. More precisely, tidal gravity is a manifestation of spacetime curvature; in fact it is spacetime curvature. So if the term "spacetime curvature" bothers you, just substitute "tidal gravity". You'll preserve all the correct predictions of GR.

JonathanCollins said:
What actually causes a particle of matter to move from location A to location B in the vacuum of space within a gravitational field?

The same thing that causes it to move from location to location in the vacuum of space without a gravitational field. Freely falling objects are the default state, so to speak: they just "move through spacetime" following whatever the natural pathway is in their local region.
 
JonathanCollins said:
But if as you suggest matter influences the curvature of spacetime locally through what mechanism does it achieve this? A billiard ball moves along a flat table as a result of a collision by the cue transferring its momentum to the ball; after it has left the cue it cannot be persuaded to return to the cue without a change of momentum occurring in the opposite direction. If you put the ball inside a straight tube it wouldn't move; if you put the ball inside a curved tube it still wouldn't move. How can space which is essentially void have a shape? What actually causes a particle of matter to move from location A to location B in the vacuum of space within a gravitational field?

Peter is correct. But you seem to searching for an answer to a very deep question! Your question is basically: How does action at a distance work? The truthful answer (all virtual particles aside) is: we don't know - it just does.

Edit: yet ;)
 
JonathanCollins said:
A billiard ball moves along a flat table as a result of a collision by the cue transferring its momentum to the ball
What is the mechanism by which the cue transfers momentum to the ball?
 

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