How Does Our Movement Through Spacetime Influence the Perception of Time?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter AlbertE
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Big bang Relativity
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between movement through spacetime and the perception of time, exploring concepts such as time dilation, reference frames, and the implications of speed on the rate at which seconds elapse. Participants engage with theoretical aspects of physics, particularly in the context of special relativity and cosmological origins.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the "rate of second elapse" is influenced by the speed at which we move through spacetime, considering various motions such as Earth's rotation and its orbit around the sun.
  • Questions arise regarding the definition and measurement of "speed through spacetime," with some participants seeking clarification on these terms.
  • One participant suggests that if all motion were to cease, seconds would elapse instantaneously, raising questions about the nature of time at rest versus motion.
  • Another participant references mathematical formulations related to spacetime and proper time, suggesting that proper time remains constant while time observed from different frames dilates.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of claims regarding time dilation, with some participants arguing that misunderstandings exist regarding how time is perceived in different inertial frames.
  • The "twins paradox" is discussed, with participants debating whether the traveling twin ages less than the stationary twin and how this relates to time dilation and acceleration.
  • Some participants express a desire to simplify the discussion by focusing solely on time dilation without considering acceleration, questioning if a clock moving at relativistic speeds measures time differently than a stationary clock.
  • There are assertions that both observers in different frames perceive each other's clocks as running slower, highlighting the relativity of simultaneity and time measurement.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with some agreeing on the existence of time dilation while others challenge the interpretations and implications of these concepts. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on how movement affects the perception of time.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the complexity of time dilation as it relates to acceleration and reference frames, indicating that misunderstandings may arise from oversimplified explanations. The discussion also reflects varying levels of familiarity with the underlying physics concepts.

  • #31
AlbertE said:
"rate of second elapse"
As I understand it - a second elapses at a slower rate as we approach the speed of light. Its measured with atomic clocks.
Is this not true?

I see we've had a lot of responses in the meantime...

This remark is close to being true, but you actually need two clocks to determine what you are calling the "rate of second elapse".

It may be a bit obvious, but when you compare a clock to itself, it always ticks at 1 second per second.

To come up with a number different than 1, you must compare your clock to someone else's clock.

But the first question you have to ask is "which clocks are being compared?" And the next question involves "how do we compare them".

For cases involving gravitational time dilation, there are easy answers to both of these questions. We compare our clock in a gravity well to a distant clock outside the gravity well, and the round-trip time is a constant, so there is no real issue on how to compare the rate of the clocks.

Things are not nearly so easy for two clocks, sitting in space, both moving.

One of the basic principles of relativity is that it is impossible to tell who is moving, and who is standing still.

One highly non-intuitive consequence of this is that from the point of view of twin A and twin B, who are moving relative to each other, is that A thinks B's clocks are runnign slow, and B thinks A's clocks are runnign slow. And they are both, in some sense, correct.

This is known as the "twin paradox". There has been a lot written about its resolution, the key point turns out to be that there isn't actually a standard way to compare the rate of separated clocks that are moving relative to each other. "Which clock is slow" depends on the mechanism of the comparison operation.

For instance, suppose you compare clocks by bringing them physically back to the same point in space. Then one of the clocks, A or B, must accelerate.

If A and only A accelerates, it will have the least elapsed time. If B and only B acclerates, it will havea hte least elapsed time.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
AlbertE said:
Im thinking that you can determine speed by using the initial big bang point of singularity as a point of reference - something which nobody has considered so far as I am aware.
To me - c - that's just a nice effect in an expanding sphere of matter.
I would rather see that as we travel back towards the point of origin, that our "rate of second elsapse" would accelerate as we subtract x from our speed of outbound motion from the blast - where x would be our speed measure towards the point of the blast.

You are on the initial big bang point. That is the meaning of the big bang theory. All the points in space were at the moment of the big bang the central point. There is no special point in the universe. I find very good the analogy of the expanding balloon were the space is the surface of the balloon and the original point is in the centre of the balloon, i.e. a point in space-time outside the current spatial hyper surface and not on it and the place that all the points of the balloon occupied at the initial moment.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 90 ·
4
Replies
90
Views
4K
Replies
38
Views
5K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
4K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
3K
  • · Replies 32 ·
2
Replies
32
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K