How Does the Flow Equation Apply in Higher Dimensional Phase Spaces?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Kashmir
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Dimensions
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the flow equation in higher-dimensional phase spaces, specifically in the context of a 6N-dimensional phase space. Participants explore the validity of the flow equation as described by Pathria, questioning its applicability beyond three dimensions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the flow equation's validity in 3D but expresses uncertainty regarding its application in higher dimensions.
  • Another participant suggests considering the flow equation in 2D, specifically with dimensions ##p_x## and ##x##, to understand its generalization.
  • A participant acknowledges the need to generalize velocity to a broader context but questions how the principle applies in higher dimensions.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the same conservation principles apply in phase space, asserting that points can only move and cannot be created or destroyed.
  • There is a suggestion that the lack of a proof in the original text may be due to the author's belief that the concept is trivial.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally express uncertainty about the flow equation's application in higher dimensions, with no consensus reached on its proof or validity beyond three dimensions.

Contextual Notes

Some participants reference generalized velocities and conservation principles, but the discussion lacks a detailed mathematical proof or exploration of assumptions underlying the flow equation in higher dimensions.

Kashmir
Messages
466
Reaction score
74
We are in phase space of ##6N## dimensions. Each point ##\mathbf r## in this space has ##6N## coordinates.

IMG_20220404_130052.JPG

Pathria writes "Consider an arbitrary "volume" ##\omega## in the relevant region of the phase space and let the "surface" enclosing this volume be denoted by ##\sigma## then the net rate at which the representative points "flow" out of ##\omega## (across the bounding surface ##\sigma## ) is given by
##
\int \rho \boldsymbol{v} \cdot \hat{\boldsymbol{n}} d \sigma
##"

Where ##\boldsymbol{v}## is velocity and ##\rho## is number density function

I can understand why the equation is true in 3D however in higher dimensions I'm not sure why it holds . Please help me
 
Last edited:
Science news on Phys.org
Could you see why it would hold in 2D, where the two dimensions would be ##p_x## and ##x##?

(Note that ##\mathbf{v}## here is a generalization of velocity, not the actual velocity of a particle.)
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Kashmir
DrClaude said:
Could you see why it would hold in 2D, where the two dimensions would be ##p_x## and ##x##?

(Note that ##\mathbf{v}## here is a generalization of velocity, not the actual velocity of a particle.)
No sir, I cannot.
 
But you can see how it works in 3D?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Kashmir
DrClaude said:
But you can see how it works in 3D?
I had forgotten that we were talking about genralised velocities. I had in mind a 3D spatial velocity vector.
 
Kashmir said:
I had forgotten that we were talking about genralised velocities. I had in mind a 3D spatial velocity vector.
You have to generalize to the time derivative of the coordinates, but the principle is the same.
 
DrClaude said:
You have to generalize to the time derivative of the coordinates, but the principle is the same.
I understand that we have a generalized velocity vector now, however I don't get how the same principle would apply?

Is it that it's proof is advanced so the author has skipped it?
 
Kashmir said:
I understand that we have a generalized velocity vector now, however I don't get how the same principle would apply?
The same conservation principles apply, that points in phase space can only move around, they never get created or destroyed.

Kashmir said:
Is it that it's proof is advanced so the author has skipped it?
Don't take this the wrong way, but I would say the author doesn't give a proof because they consider this trivial. Again, just think in terms of basic conservation principles.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Kashmir

Similar threads

  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K