How Does the Phase Relation of the Electric Field Vector Change with Time?

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Homework Help Overview

This discussion revolves around the phase relation of the electric field vector in the context of electromagnetic wave polarization. The original poster is attempting to derive how the phase \(\psi\) changes with time \(t\) and is particularly interested in understanding the direction of this change as time progresses.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the relationship between the phase \(\psi\) and time \(t\) through mathematical expressions involving trigonometric functions and inverse tangent. There are discussions about simplifying expressions and considering derivatives to determine the behavior of \(\psi\) over time.

Discussion Status

Several participants have provided insights into the mathematical relationships involved, with some suggesting that taking the derivative of \(\psi\) could help in understanding whether \(\psi\) increases or decreases with time. There is an ongoing exploration of how constants within the equations affect the outcome, and while some guidance has been offered, no consensus has been reached on the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster is feeling uncertain due to a lack of recent experience with calculus, which may affect their confidence in manipulating the expressions involved. There is also mention of constants that complicate the analysis, particularly when considering the sign of \(\sin(\delta)\).

yungman
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Homework Statement



This is part of the derivation of the direction of rotation of an ellipse in EM wave polarization. I need to find the direction of the change of phase \psi of the electric field vector with increase of time t. To make the long story short, for example:

\psi\;=\; \tan^{-1}\left(\frac{\cos(\omega t+\frac{\pi}{2})}{\cos \omega t}\right)\;=\; \tan^{-1}\left(\frac{-\sin(\omega t)}{\cos \omega t}\right)\;=\;-\omega t
From this we can conclude \psi DECREASE with INCREASE of t.

But if the constant is \delta where 0<\delta<\pi, how do I find the relation of \psi with time t?

Homework Equations



\psi\;=\; \tan^{-1}\left(\frac{\cos(\omega t+\delta)}{\cos \omega t}\right)

The Attempt at a Solution



\psi\;=\; \tan^{-1}\left(\frac{\cos(\omega t+\delta)}{\cos \omega t}\right)\;=\; \tan^{-1}\left(\frac{\sin(\omega t+\frac{\pi}{2}+\delta)}{\cos \omega t}\right)\;=\;\tan^{-1}\left(\frac {\cos\omega t \cos \delta\;-\; \sin\omega t \sin \delta}{\cos \omega t}\right)I don't know how to go beyond this to find the relation of \psi with t. Please help.

Thanks

Alan
 
Last edited:
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Are you sure that there is an easy way to write this relation?
You can simplify the expression a bit:

$$ \psi = \tan^{-1} \left( \cos(\delta ) - \sin(\delta ) \tan(\omega t) \right)$$
 
mfb said:
Are you sure that there is an easy way to write this relation?
You can simplify the expression a bit:

$$ \psi = \tan^{-1} \left( \cos(\delta ) - \sin(\delta ) \tan(\omega t) \right)$$

Thanks for your reply. That is the next step. I am not sure there is an easier way, the goal is to determine the direction of rotation with increase time t. My main question is how to go any further. How do I find out whether \psi increase or decrease with time.

Do you think taking the derivative and look at whether it's +ve or -ve will work? I don't know the answer. This is not a home work, it's been a while since I studied calculus and I am very rusty in it.
 
Last edited:
yungman said:
Do you think taking the derivative and look at whether it's +ve or -ve will work? I don't know the answer. This is not a home work, it's been a while since I studied calculus and I am very rusty in it.
That should work, but you can do this a bit quicker: tan-1 and tan are strictly increasing. If sin(δ) is positive, ψ is going down if t increases, otherwise ψ and t increase together.
 
mfb said:
That should work, but you can do this a bit quicker: tan-1 and tan are strictly increasing. If sin(δ) is positive, ψ is going down if t increases, otherwise ψ and t increase together.

Thanks. I am just confused when there is some constant inside. I just digged up my old notes on inverse tangent and need to read through it. Have not deal with this for years!
 
I worked on this more:

\psi = \tan^{-1} \left( \cos(\delta ) - \sin(\delta ) \tan(\omega t) \right)\;=\;\tan^{-1} \left( K_1 - K_2 \tan(\omega t) \right) \;\hbox {where }\;K-1=\cos \delta\;,\;K_2=\sin \delta

\Rightarrow \frac { d[tan^{-1}(K_1+K_2\tan\omega t)]}{d[K_1+K_2\tan\omega t]}\;=\;\frac{1}{1+(K_1+K_2 \tan\omega t)}\;\Rightarrow\; \psi'\;=\;\frac { d[tan^{-1}(K_1+K_2\tan\omega t)]}{d t}\;=\;\frac{\omega K_2 \sec^2\omega t}{1+(K_1+K_2\tan\omega t)^2}

\psi'\;=\;\frac{\omega K_1 (1+\tan^2\omega t)}{(1+K^2_1 + 2K_1K_2\tan\omega t +K^2_2 \tan^2\omega t)}\;=\;\frac {(K_3+K_3 tan\omega t)}{(K_4+K_5\tan\omega t+ K_6 \tan^2\omega t)}

K_1 to K_6 are constants. With this relationship, how can I predict the change of direction of phase with time t?

I don't need to find the value of \psi, I just need to know whether \psi increase or decrease with t.
 
Well, see my approach above, it avoids those messy expressions.
Alternatively, consider
\psi'\;=\;\frac{\omega K_2 \sec^2\omega t}{1+(K_1+K_2\tan\omega t)^2}
The denominator is always positive, and ω and sec2 are positive as well. Therefore, the derivative has the same sign as ##K_2=-\sin(\delta)## (you swapped the sign somewhere).
 
Thanks
 

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