How Does the Principle of Extremal Aging Determine the Path of a Free Object?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the principle of extremal aging and its implications for determining the path of a free object in the context of special and general relativity. Participants explore the concept of proper time and its relation to the motion of objects, including potential examples of minimum and maximum aging.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how extremum time lapse recorded on an object's wristwatch relates to the path of a free object, seeking examples of minimum aging.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the original question and states that objects moving close to the speed of light appear to age more slowly, suggesting there is no concept of "minimum aging."
  • A different participant clarifies that the discussion is about maximum aging, linking it to the principle of extremal proper time, which is analogous to the principle of least action in Newtonian mechanics.
  • One participant notes that the principle is primarily associated with John Archibald Wheeler and mentions its application in exploring black holes, indicating limited information available on the topic.
  • Another participant corrects the previous claim, stating that experts prefer the term "extremum aging" because both minimum and maximum aging can occur.
  • A participant provides a technical explanation of the principle, describing the proper time in flat Minkowski space and how the path that maximizes proper time corresponds to an inertially moving object.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the concepts of minimum and maximum aging, with some asserting that both can exist while others focus on maximum aging. The original question remains unresolved, as participants have not reached a consensus on the interpretation of extremum aging.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes varying interpretations of the principle of extremal aging, with some participants emphasizing the need for clarity on definitions and the mathematical framework involved. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the application of the principle in different contexts.

dpa
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i posted this in general forum. That might be wrong. So moderators, delete that not this.
Q.
why/how extremum time lapse
between two events recorded on
object's wristwatch gives the
path of a free object.

And any examples of minimum
aging.
 
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I, for one, have no idea what you are asking. The closer to the speed of light something is moving, relative to me, the slower I will see it aging. There is no "minimum aging".
 
HallsofIvy said:
I, for one, have no idea what you are asking. The closer to the speed of light something is moving, relative to me, the slower I will see it aging. There is no "minimum aging".

It's not minimum aging, but rather maximum. He's talking about the principle of extremal proper time. It's an analog to the principle of least action from Newtonian mechanics.
 
yes, may be because its a principle used mainly by john archibald wheeler and only few others and he has used the concept extensively in exploring black holes and is applicable both to GR and SR. You might want to google but there is limited info.
 
Last edited:
elfmotat,
wheeler writes experts prefer extremum aging not maximum aging coz there can be both minimum and maximum aging.
 
dpa said:
Q.
why/how extremum time lapse between two events recorded on object's wristwatch gives the path of a free object. And any examples of minimum aging.

It's a principle, meaning it doesn't need an explanation. It is, however, easy to get an intuitive feel for it. Say, for simplicity, that we're working in flat Minkowski space. The proper time of an object traversing some worldline is given by dτ2=dt2-dr2, where dr2=dx2+dy2+dz2. The path that maximizes this is of the form r(λ)=kλ for some constant k and affine parameter λ. This corresponds to an inertially moving object, which is indeed the state of an object which isn't acted upon by outside forces.
 
Last edited:

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