The discussion revolves around how the world appears to a moving observer in the context of Special Relativity, particularly in comparison to an observer at rest. Participants explore various aspects of visual perception, Lorentz transformations, and the implications of relative motion on observation.
Participants express differing views on whether Lorentz transformations affect visual perception. Some maintain that they do not, while others argue that they do influence what an observer sees. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.
Participants note that the relationship between Lorentz transformations and visual perception is complex, involving factors like relative speeds, Doppler effects, and the nature of measurements in different inertial reference frames (IRFs). There is also mention of the limitations in understanding how these transformations manifest in everyday visual experiences.
A Lorentz Transformation does not in any way affect what any observer sees.nick41 said:I would like to get a detailed description, how the world looks for a moving observer in Special Relativity compared to the way it looks for an observer at rest. Do you know any reference, where I can find such a description? Can you maybe even tell me, where to find two pictures of the sights of both observers?
nick41 said:I would like to get a detailed description, how the world looks for a moving observer in Special Relativity compared to the way it looks for an observer at rest. Do you know any reference, where I can find such a description? Can you maybe even tell me, where to find two pictures of the sights of both observers?
nick41 said:I would like to get a detailed description, how the world looks for a moving observer in Special Relativity compared to the way it looks for an observer at rest. Do you know any reference, where I can find such a description? Can you maybe even tell me, where to find two pictures of the sights of both observers?
Where is the Lorentz Transformation in this scenario? Remember, a Lorentz Transformation changes the coordinates of events which is information not available to any observer and doesn't in any way affect what an observer sees.DimReg said:Go for a jog, and look at things around you. You've applied a lorentz transformation to yourself and you can see how it looks different. ;)
You won't necessarily see things looking shorter just because there is a fast relative speed between you and the object. The images of objects get blue shifted as you/they approach each other and change to red shifted as you/they pass each other but the visual shapes of objects is a very complicated subject and has nothing to do with a Lorentz Transformation.DimReg said:At faster speeds, things might look shorter in the direction of travel, because they are lorentz contracted. But note that only relative speeds matter, if you start running with a meter stick in your hand it won't look any shorter.
ghwellsjr said:Where is the Lorentz Transformation in this scenario? Remember, a Lorentz Transformation changes the coordinates of events which is information not available to any observer and doesn't in any way affect what an observer sees.
You won't necessarily see things looking shorter just because there is a fast relative speed between you and the object. The images of objects get blue shifted as you/they approach each other and change to red shifted as you/they pass each other but the visual shapes of objects is a very complicated subject and has nothing to do with a Lorentz Transformation.
Before and after the boost, different things are at rest and different things are moving according to the IRF but relative speeds between objects remain the same in all IRF's. Therefore, what an observer sees is not affected by transforming to a different IRF.DimReg said:The lorentz transformation is a boost... You start out not running, then later you are. I thought that was clear. And yes it does affect what an observer sees: before the boost some things will be at rest, and after they will be moving.
No Lorentz variant quantity is in any way visible to any observer. And any measurement or derived calculation that any observer determines for these Lorentz variant quantities come out the same for him when you transform to a different IRF.DimReg said:While the coordinate aspect of lorentz transformations is not measurable, non lorentz invariant quantities (such as energy) do change under lorentz transformations, so you can't claim that lorentz tranformations don't affect what an observer sees.
Unfortunately, when an OP who is uncomfortable with Special Relativity asks a confusing or disjointed question, it is impossible to determine what he wants to know. But that is not an excuse to give him wrong information. It's wrong to tell him that a Lorentz Transformation changes what he sees, measures or determines.DimReg said:Ok, I did say that you "might" see things get shorter. Judging by the question of the OP, I don't think he's completely comfortable with special relativity, so I don't see the point in making my answer as complicated as possible. I tried to give a simple version of what goes on, and not bother the OP with issues like red shift and blue shift, so he can focus on what he want to know.
They don't change the way the world looks to any observer in any way. That's the whole point of Special Relativity, all IRF's are equally valid, none is preferred.DimReg said:My point about going for a jog wasn't that you'd notice lorentz contraction, but that there is nothing unusual about lorentz transformations, and they don't change the way the world looks in an exotic way.