How Is a Rock on My Desk Moving?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the various ways a rock on a desk can be considered to be moving, examining the concept of motion from different reference frames and perspectives. It touches on philosophical implications, physical principles, and the nature of observation in relation to motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Philosophical
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the motion of the rock is dependent on the chosen reference frame, indicating that it can be seen as moving or stationary based on the observer's perspective.
  • Others argue that the rock is in constant motion due to the Earth's rotation, its orbit around the sun, and the movement of the solar system within the galaxy.
  • A participant points out that without a defined reference frame, the question of the rock's motion becomes impossible to answer.
  • One viewpoint posits that the rock is not moving in the observer's frame unless a force is applied to it.
  • Another participant mentions that the rock experiences internal motion at a molecular level, related to its thermal energy.
  • Some contributions delve into the philosophical aspects of motion, questioning whether motion is real or an illusion, and discussing the implications of perception on the understanding of motion.
  • There are references to the concept of forces acting on the rock, such as gravitational force, and how these forces relate to different frames of reference.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of motion, with no clear consensus reached. Some agree on the importance of reference frames, while others emphasize philosophical interpretations of motion.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes various assumptions about reference frames, the nature of motion, and the philosophical implications of observing motion, which remain unresolved.

screwball
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ok say i have a rock sitting on my desk next to my computer. what are all the different ways it is moving? universaly*

i think about it a lot and a previous post gave me the idea to ask all of you. Would love to hear different perspectives:smile:
 
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It can move any way you want if you choose the right reference system. How is it moving relative to what?
 
Well, yea...as the Earth is rotating is moving that way...as the Earth is going around the sun its going that way...as the solar system is moving around the galaxy, its moving that way...as the galaxy is moving in space, its moving that way...

But again, reference points...if ure sitting next to it, its not moving at all, which is as valid as if someone was flying by our solar system and saw the rock moving, but then u see the rock standing still and the person moving..yeah...*confuzzled*
 
yes, you can't answer this question without allocating a reference frame. Its an impossible question, because ultimate motion is governed by the boundaries of the universe. Can you invisage that?

I think not...
 
yeh thanks


forgetit
 
Or is that rock standing still and all other motion is happening around it?

If you have ever looked through a telescope at low power, say 10x, you can walk away from it for five minutes, return and it is still pretty much the same view as when you left, but raise the magnification to 150x and suddenly that star or planet that was centered a second ago is marching toward the side of the field of view and out of sight. Although the stars and other planets are moving relative to us, the motion we percieve as the stars moving is mainly the rotation of the Earth underneath of the telescope.
 
I believe this should go into the philosophy forum because if you are asking how it is moving, then that suggests you are the observer, and since you are there looking at it, in the same general reference frame, the rock is not moving whatsoever, unless a force is applied on it within your reference frame.
 
Rock is actually moving up (with acceleration about 9.8 m/s^2).

This is quite easy to detect by any accelerometer (like a mass on spring, or mass on a string - a pendulum, etc).
 
The rock is moving internally at a molecular level, with a random kinetic energy related to it's heat
 
  • #10
And each proton/neutron/electron in it is likely just a motion of sub-stuff (vacuum? massless string? space-time?) in it, creating illusion of mass and of other quantities (charge, spin, etc). In reality there may be nothing "physical" in there.
 
  • #11
Originally posted by Alexander
In reality there may be nothing "physical" in there.
...which is why this is a philosophical topic more than it is physics..
 
  • #12
I would rather say "mathematical" instead of "philosophical".
 
  • #13
What is really moving?

If you don't see it moving, then it's not moving. Well it's exerting a force on an object (table) and table is exerting a force back of same magnitude. It is rvolving with the earth. If Earth is frame of reference the rocks not moving but a force acts on t every single instant (it's weight). It depends on your frme of reference. If your frame of reference is let's say planet jupitur...then it's moving.:smile:
 
  • #14
Originally posted by screwball
ok say i have a rock sitting on my desk next to my computer. what are all the different ways it is moving? universaly*

i think about it a lot and a previous post gave me the idea to ask all of you. Would love to hear different perspectives:smile:

It has obviously moved you...

Is motion real or unreal? Local or nonlocal? Why care?

Quiet

Great perfection can seem incomplete,
But does not decay;
Great abundance can seem empty,
But does not fail.
Great truth can seem contradictory;
Great cleverness can seem stupid;
Great eloquence can seem awkward;
Great questions can seem foolish.
As spring overcomes the cold,
And autumn overcomes the heat,
So calm and quiet overcome the world.
 

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