How is an interference pattern changed by an external field?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on how an external field, specifically the Lorentz force, affects the interference pattern produced by diffracted electrons, exploring the wave-particle duality of electrons and the associated mathematics of quantifying any deflection in the interference pattern.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the interference pattern produced by electrons is affected by the Lorentz force, suggesting that the pattern's position will be deflected.
  • Others argue that the application of Lorentz force mechanics to this scenario is not appropriate, indicating that quantum mechanics (QM) does not typically utilize a "force picture."
  • A participant questions the mathematics involved in quantifying the deflection of the interference pattern, seeking clarity on the topic.
  • There is a suggestion that the original thread title should be changed to better reflect the actual question being posed.
  • Some participants express skepticism about the existence of a textbook treatment for the quasi-Lorentz force effect on a diffracted electron beam, stating that no such topic is covered in literature.
  • One participant expresses frustration over the perceived incorrectness of another's claims, indicating that the discussion may not be productive if incorrect ideas are repeated.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the application of Lorentz force mechanics to the interference pattern of electrons, with some asserting that it is relevant while others maintain it is not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the appropriate mathematical framework for this scenario.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions made about the applicability of classical mechanics to quantum phenomena, and the lack of consensus on the existence of relevant educational resources complicates the inquiry.

tade
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For example, through the diffracting of electrons and their wave-particle dualistic nature, its possible to produce an interference pattern.

And for the resulting electron beam, it will still be affected by the Lorentz force and be deflected by it. At the same time, the position(s) of the interference pattern will also be deflected.

and Lorentz force mechanics usually apply to particulate trajectories, but this time, the interference pattern is a result of electron matter wave interactions, and so I'd like to ask what are the mathematics of quantifying the deflection of the interference pattern.
 
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A "force picture" is usually not how QM is formulated.

Have you considered a book/class on QM? You are likely to make faster progress that way.
 
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tade said:
I'd like to ask what are the mathematics of quantifying the deflection of the interference pattern.
Then your thread title needs to be changed, because the answer to this question is "not by Lorentz force mechanics".
 
PeterDonis said:
your thread title needs to be changed
And I have now changed it to better reflect (a) what it looks like your actual question is, and (b) a question that can actually be answered.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Have you considered a book/class on QM? You are likely to make faster progress that way.
yeah and i'd like to check, under which topic covers such a quasi-Lorentz force effect on a diffracted electron beam?
 
tade said:
For example, through the diffracting of electrons and their wave-particle dualistic nature, its possible to produce an interference pattern.

And for the resulting electron beam, it will still be affected by the Lorentz force and be deflected by it. At the same time, the position(s) of the interference pattern will also be deflected.

and Lorentz force mechanics usually apply to particulate trajectories, but this time, the interference pattern is a result of electron matter wave interactions, and so I'd like to ask what are the mathematics of quantifying the deflection of the interference pattern.
the matter waves would have group velocities of the electrons' velocities, apparently representing the particulate trajectories
 
tade said:
yeah
Well, then why don't you tell us what text you are using. We can surely recommend a better one, as the one you are using seems to be confusing you.
 
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tade said:
the matter waves would have group velocities of the electrons' velocities, apparently representing the particulate trajectories

Are you asking us or telling us?
 
tade said:
under which topic covers such a quasi-Lorentz force effect on a diffracted electron beam?
None. Go read post #3 again.

tade said:
the matter waves would have group velocities of the electrons' velocities, apparently representing the particulate trajectories
We can't help you to find such a textbook treatment because none exists.
 
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  • #10
PeterDonis said:
We can't help you to find such a textbook treatment because none exists.
This is why I asked "Are you asking us or telling us?". It seems as if Tade is making something up himself, because a lot of what he says is wrong - or rather "not even wrong". But a textbook that shows him how things really are could be helpful in a way that asking us to explain to him something that only he believes to be true is not.
 
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  • #11
Vanadium 50 said:
Are you asking us or telling us?
telling you my idea of what I think is the situation which is going on
 
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  • #12
tade said:
telling you my idea of what I think is the situation which is going on
You have already been told that this idea is wrong. There is no point in continuing the discussion if you are just going to repeat the same wrong idea.

Thread closed.
 

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