How is aviation radar able to track objects in three dimensions simultaneously?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the mechanisms by which aviation radar can track objects in three dimensions simultaneously. Participants explore the theory and application of radar technology in aviation, including its use in air traffic control and military contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express a general understanding of radar theory but seek clarification on how aviation radar specifically determines an object's position in three dimensions.
  • One participant explains that much of aviation radar relies on transponders that broadcast a plane's position from its GPS, rather than traditional radar methods.
  • Another participant suggests that radar guidance systems use vertical and horizontal sweeping mechanisms to locate targets in three-dimensional space.
  • There is mention of using gimbaled parabolic antennas or electrically-steered phased-array antennas for tracking targets.
  • A participant raises a hypothetical idea involving a single transmitter and multiple receivers arranged in a triangle to detect signals at different times, questioning the feasibility of this approach.
  • One participant clarifies that while arrival times can be measured with high accuracy, atmospheric disturbances could interfere with such measurements.
  • Another participant corrects earlier statements by explaining that radar systems use spherical coordinates (r, theta, phi) rather than Cartesian coordinates (x, y, z) for tracking, detailing the operational modes of search and tracking radars.
  • There is a discussion about the use of monopulse beams for enhanced accuracy in targeting, involving complex antenna configurations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and propose different mechanisms for how aviation radar operates, indicating that multiple competing views remain. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the best method or explanation.

Contextual Notes

Some limitations include the dependence on specific definitions of radar types and the unresolved nature of certain technical claims regarding the effectiveness of various radar systems in different contexts.

GiTS
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I understand the theory of radar but not aviation radar. It is my understanding they can find an objects position in the x, y, and z axis simultaneously. How does that work?
 
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Most aviation (air traffic control) radar isn't really radar - a radio signal is sent to a transponder on the plane which broadcasts it's own position from the planes GPS, along with it's ID, route, altitude etc

You can determine height (and range) from primary radar by sweeping a narrow beam vertically and measuring the angle at which you get a strong return. Essentially it's just regular radar turned on it's side.
 
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ok. thank you. So how do radar guidance systems or jetplanes find a target in 3 dimensional space? A vertical and horizontal sweeping radar?
 
GiTS said:
ok. thank you. So how do radar guidance systems or jetplanes find a target in 3 dimensional space? A vertical and horizontal sweeping radar?

Yes. Either a gimbaled parabolic antenna, or an electrically-steered phased-array antenna. I'll see if I can find some pics...
 
Oh wicked! Looks to be a combination gimballed phased-array antenna in an F-16. :cool:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/ELEC_AN-APG-68v9_Radar_F-16_lg.jpg

.
 
GiTS said:
ok. thank you. So how do radar guidance systems or jetplanes find a target in 3 dimensional space?
Civil aircraft don't carry primary radar, the position of other planes and the collision avoidance is managed by the transponders.
Large airliners do carry weather radar which is relatively short range and low resolution to pick up rain clouds.

Do planes still use radar altimeters or do they rely on pressure and GPS?
 
Thank you.
I had an idea, but I am not sure if it would work. What if there was one transmitter but 3 receivers spaced out in a triangle. Each receiver would receive the signal at slightly different times if the object was not in between all 3 receivers. Or would the equipment not be fast enough to detect such minute differences?
 
You can measure arrival times to incredible accuracy but atmospheric disturbances would be much larger than the difference in arrival time
 
GiTS said:
I understand the theory of radar but not aviation radar. It is my understanding they can find an objects position in the x, y, and z axis simultaneously. How does that work?
Actually r, theta and phi, not x,y,z. Search and tracking are done with different modes, and sometimes by different radars. A search radar sweeps a beam which might be large. Air traffic control radars use an antenna shaped like a part of a cylinder (or paraboloid). They're wide in the rotation direction to provide a narrow beam in azimuth angle phi, but short in height to provide a fan that covers from ground to high altitudes. Phi is read off from the antenna pointing angle when a target is detected.

On fighters or air defense radar, a track mode can be activated on a detected target. By using a large antenna (large compared to a wavelength), a pencil-thin beam is formed (a beamwidth of 1 degree is typical). Thus the theta and phi angles of any target illuminated by the beam are known, and distance is found by measuring pulse round-trip travel time.

For greater accuracy needed for targeting and fire control, a "monopulse beam" is used. The antenna is split vertically into two parts whose signals are subtracted to form a narrow null at boresight. A servo points the antenna in elevation to keep the signal nulled, which can be done with extremely high accuracy. The antenna is also divided horizontally for accurate phi pointing. At the same time, all four quadrants are added in phase for the regular radar mode already mentioned.
 

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