How is it possible for v/v units to exceed 100%?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of volume/volume (v/v) units and the possibility of these values exceeding 100%. Participants explore the implications of non-additive volumes when mixing substances, particularly in the context of solutions and gas adsorption.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how v/v can exceed 100%, noting that it is typically calculated as (volume of solute/total volume).
  • Another participant states that volume is not additive, providing an example where mixing 50 mL of water with 50 mL of ethanol results in a total volume of 96.4 mL.
  • A similar point is reiterated, with a participant seeking further explanation for the non-additive behavior of volumes.
  • A reference to "non-ideal behaviors" is made, suggesting that there are complexities in volume calculations that are not straightforward.
  • One participant uses an analogy of adding sand to marbles to illustrate how final volumes can differ from simple sums of individual volumes.
  • This analogy is expanded upon, with a discussion of gas adsorption on charcoal and the concept of 'internal volume' affecting overall volume measurements.
  • Another participant adds that when gas is adsorbed onto charcoal, the volume occupied by the adsorbate is much less than the volume of gas at standard temperature and pressure (STP), emphasizing the empty space in gas volumes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that volume is not additive in certain contexts, particularly when discussing solutions and gas adsorption. However, the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of exceeding 100% v/v and the specific mechanisms behind these phenomena.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention non-ideal behaviors and the complexities of volume measurements, indicating that assumptions about volume additivity may not hold in all cases. The discussion includes references to specific examples and analogies that highlight these complexities.

ReidMerrill
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I'm looking through articles for a presentation in college and I ran across the units volume/volume. (V/V)
From what I understand v/v is calculated with the formula (vol. solute/total volume). One of the articles has figures with over 100 v/v. How is this possible? Shouldn't it be between 0 and 1 or 0% and 100%
 
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Volume is not additive. If you mix 50 mL of water with 50 mL of ethanol you'll get 96.4 mL of solution.
 
Borek said:
Volume is not additive. If you mix 50 mL of water with 50 mL of ethanol you'll get 96.4 mL of solution.

Why does this happen? I can see how it would work if the two substances were at different temperatures initially but can't think of anything else that would cause it.
 
Imagine adding sand to marbles, with sand filling gaps between marbles. Is the final volume sum of volumes?

That's not the only way it happens, but it will give you an example.
 
Borek said:
Imagine adding sand to marbles, with sand filling gaps between marbles. Is the final volume sum of volumes?

That's not the only way it happens, but it will give you an example.
That's a good analogy. It was talking about gas adsorbing to charcoal. I didn't take into account the nooks and crannies in charcoal that give it 'internal volume' for lack of a better word
 
That adds another complication, because when a gas is adsorbed on charcoal it is not a gas in the adsorbed form. It is not surprising that 1 cm3 of charcoal may adsorb 100 cm3 of gas, but the volume occupied by the adsorbate molecules in the charcoal is much less than 100 cm3. Remember that the volume of a gas is mostly empty space. As a very rough guide, the volume of a gas at STP is of the order of 1000 x its volume as a liquid. So the volume occupied by the adsorbate may be more like ca. 0.1 cm3.
 

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