How is it that there are people who just get it?

[kramer733]

Today I met somebody that never goes to class and does the bare minimum to obtain the grades. What I mean by this is that he only does the tests, exams, and assignments. The ones that are only worth marks. Yet this guy gets amazing grades. I just don't understand how that's possible.

I have to slave my *** to get a decent mark while he gets it so easily and never does his homework. For every lesson, i do all the assigned homework but i just don't understand how this guy doesn't do any homework and still understands.

Am i doing math wrong?

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

From experience, it's not good to compare yourself with others.

Look only at yourself.

It's like asking how can Usain Bolt run so fast?
Gift and a lot of practicing.

If you like what your'e doing that's all that matters.

Obvisouly nowadays people can use drugs to increase their abilities, but let's still be naive and say that it doesn't matter.

 

[Pengwuino]

He could be cheating. But who cares.

 

[mal4mac]

They disentagle their mind across many parallel universes, and that (as you have observed) allows them to both do and not do homework at the same time...

 

[cgk]

People like this are rare, and usually don't get very far because they never learned how to do hard, unpleasant work. The latter *will* be required at some point in one's study. The reason people with this attitude are that rare at universities is thatthey usually have already dropped out by this time and never reached university in the first place. Talent alone is worthless unless the individual posessing it knows how to put it into practice.

Usually the people who understand fastest are the ones who have prior (intimate) knowledge of the same or related subjects. He may have that and get along just fine as long as his knowledge lasts. Also, for all you know, he could be spending his time in the library reading textbooks and doing assignments there. Or simply lie about not doing his homework (yes, that happens. A few people to that to appear more clever).

 

[Antiphon]

He may already know the topic. By the time I had my first intoductory circuits class in college I had been designing and building audio amplifiers for 10 years. You never know what someone's background is.

 

[AlephZero]

Unless you are stalking him 24 hours a day, you don't actually know what he is doing to study.

Sooner or later, almost everybody has to learn how to deal with other people who are genuinely much smarter than themselves. (Not to mention those who want you to believe they are, even when they aren't). Learning how to handle that is probably more important than learning math, in the global scheme of things.

 

[Choppy]

I don't understand why someone would pay the cost of university tuition and then not attend the lectures - but if this guy has a system that works for him, so be it. As cgk said, some people lie about the amount of effor they put in because for some reason they believe that it makes them appear a little more gifted than the average student.

Eventually this approach catches up with you though. You can't go through graduate school without putting in an effort. I wouldn't be surprised if this approach is common among people who get into grad school with stellar marks but later flunk out because getting through requires more than just passing tests.

 

[oraclelive]

Whoa! Pleasant posts. Mine is logical. I think practical men who believe themselves to be quite exempt from intellectual influences are usually the slaves of defunct economicst. So do not border about unknown of others.

 

[DaveC426913]

See this thread:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=489211

 

[Dembadon]

Today I met somebody that never goes to class and does the bare minimum to obtain the grades. What I mean by this is that he only does the tests, exams, and assignments. The ones that are only worth marks. Yet this guy gets amazing grades. I just don't understand how that's possible.

[...]

I had a classmate in Calc I who was like this. It was his 3rd time taking the course. Stop comparing yourself with your classmates; people have different backgrounds and abilities, and, as Aleph pointed out, you've no reasonable way of knowing his history. Evaluate your performance based on your own marks and grades. Feedback from a professor is much more valuable than a superficial understanding of why a fellow student is performing at a certain level.

 

[Diracula]

Were you ever in a situation were you just "got it" while others struggled? Say with basic arithmetic in grade school, for example.

It's just like that, but with more advanced stuff. Chances are they, at one point, studied and practiced intensely in an area that was similar to whatever class you are talking about, plus they may learn that stuff faster than most. So when they sit in these other classes it is now relatively easy for them.

Kinda like in grade school. There were those who "got" basic arithmetic and those who struggled. Chances are most of the ones who got it the quickest were a little ahead of the curve in smarts, plus they studied it intensely until it was intuitive for them. Then the more advanced stuff came that much easier. It snowballs.

Plus, as others have said, some people lie about the amount of work they put in so they look smarter to their peers. This may be a possibility.

 

[Klockan3]

I don't understand why someone would pay the cost of university tuition and then not attend the lectures.

I don't know, maybe to get a degree? As it is to do the examination you also need to pay for the lectures at every institution, which is kinda strange imo. It makes sense for the institution since it allows them to force people to pay more but it doesn't really make sense from a national perspective. If institutions should work on a market economy then the lectures shouldn't be packaged with the examination, you would pay for them in separate. That would force them to actually give lectures that matters etc.

 

[Jack21222]

Some people have natural ability in an area, some people need to practice.

I, for one, don't know how people can navigate social situations without training. It took me a lot of hard work to get to my current skill level as a salesman (which is just average), for example. Some people are terrific salespeople on their first day with no training.

On the other hand, I was always good with math. In high school, I wouldn't do any homework at all, would pay little attention in class, and ace every exam. (However, in high school, exams make up a minuscule portion of the grade, so I finished with a 1.0 grade point average). I've learned in the past year, though, that in order to maintain my high GPA (university GPA, not the 1.0 high school GPA) when taking some of these crazy difficult courses that I need to study myself to death (upper level Mechanics and upper level E&M for example). This is a new experience for me. People who had to work hard to earn their grades in the lower level classes are still working hard to earn good grades in these classes. I find myself caught off-guard trying to cope with the amount of work required.

So, I can confirm that the course difficulty catches up to the "natural ability" people in the end.

 

[flyingpig]

I once asked that question myself and I ended up being one of those people (only in math, sometimes but not always in physics)

 

[General_Sax]

I have to slave my *** to get a decent mark while he gets it so easily and never does his homework.

I thought that he always does his assignments...

I rarely, if ever, go to lecture. I find that I just don't learn anything in lecture... everything comes in one ear and out the other, and before I know it I've fallen asleep...

So, I just wake up on my own time, and study the homeworks.

I'm nothing special though, but I am currently keeping an 'A' average in my courses at the moment. *fingers crossed*

 

[nbo10]

Everyone is NOT created equal.

 

[DrWillVKN]

Personally, I don't see how those people can upset others. If they are at a higher level than I am, I won't be competing with them for the same things; anyways, if I was, it's just one or two people amongst tons of other positions. Just because one person is amazing at one thing doesn't mean the field is closed for everyone else- you just have to know the level at where you currently stand, and how to do your best in it. IMO, if I can never catch up to that person, then it's my own ability that's lacking, but this is due to a number of things, such as lack of time to study, being in the wrong environment (bad upbringing/past, bad teachers, etc.), AND possibly being that I'm genetically inferior, although the last one really does not matter that much (and all of those are uncontrollable, so it's best to try to work with them, not lament them).

I don't know how far I can go, and my viewpoint of the world is really naive because I'm just a freshman (in a 5 year program, trying to make up those years I missed calculus and calc based physics). I think that all humans are really terrible at estimating things, and that we're extremely emotional creatures that thrive on irrationality. Trying to predict and brace for the future by using these ridiculous and faulty models we've come up by ourselves will only lead to blind faith. Instead, since I don't think it's worthwhile to ask questions like "why can't I be as smart as the other guy who does less work than I do?" (but there's nothing wrong with doing so, it's just human nature), I just focus on the concrete things that exist in the present, because they give me a lot more juicy and detailed things to think about, compared to "why?" questions that will never be answered in the short run/present.

 

[elfboy]

They are smarter

 

[viscousflow]

Its been said before and I'll say it again. "Never compare yourself to others" I see it all the time. Lazy honor students, 4.0 guys who know nothing. I've been team lead in almost all of my projects since junior year. During this time I've had to teach and direct many honors students on what to do and how to do it. They come to me for help.

Sadly, however, my gpa is not quite 4.0. I consider those guys professional test takers. People who don't know jack and just cram before the exam and get an A. I learn at a slower pace, but by the end of the term I actually have a greater command of the subject than they do.

Such is life! I hold nothing against them or myself. Its just the way things are.

 

[Dougggggg]

I do want to say something, I am usually at the top of any math or physics course I am in. I am fairly bright and have improved quite a bit on my work ethic. I will admit, regardless of who put in whatever study time, I find myself less than pleased if another student out scores me on a test. I don't care what the necessary study time was for them, I feel like that means I should have studied more. How much they study is not something that factors into it for me. It is about how much or how little I did. Usually more importantly, it's about how well I was keeping up with that stuff as it was being taught in the first place. I can look back and always say, I should've done more, regardless of whether or not this person has even come to class once this semester.

 

[Dougggggg]

PS, I would say it never hurts to be competitive, it isn't healthy to be disappointed in yourself when you put in a lot of time and effort and someone does better.

 

[jhae2.718]

I couldn't help but post a link to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlJsPa6UwcM".

 

[wisvuze]

and this:

 

[viscousflow]

and this:

Excellent video wisvuze. Thank you for sharing that.

 

[jhae2.718]

and this:

Listening or reading Feynman is always interesting.

 

[Shaun_W]

Most likely understating the amount of work he does. Unless you have surveillance on him 24/7 then you can't possibly know.

 

[Leptos]

I've been on both ends of this situation before.
Last semester I was struggling to get decent grades even though I tried to put in a lot of effort but my heart wasn't in my studies and really I kept thinking too much about things irrelevant to my studies while trying to study... This semester I've been acing every exam despite it being my most difficult course load so far and I've been putting in much less time than some students who didn't do so well on the exams, but unlike them, I have a healthy obsession with mathematics(that is, I have math "playing" on my subconscious) this semester and when I'm going to sleep I often think about interesting problems and when I wake up I'm still thinking about concepts I've just learned and interesting problems I could make to solve myself. Think about the universe in terms of new concepts you've learned and try to create problems for yourself or create thought experiments to explore what you can do using newly learned concepts, it's how you strengthen your brain.

I'm not sure how to explain it but, last semester I was the guy putting in tons of effort but getting mediocre results while this semester I'm that guy that seems to put in no effort and gets great results. I think the idea is that you have to accept mathematics as part of your lifestyle and you have to look at math or math-heavy subjects in the general sense of problem solving and critical thinking rather than as sets of methods for solving particular types of problems. I cannot say this enough, it's just a mental block that keeps you from looking at the bigger picture of these courses, to improve your general problem solving and critical thinking skills, but not specifically what is taught in the courses since those details aren't (as) important.

 

[Geezer]

Today I met somebody that never goes to class and does the bare minimum to obtain the grades. What I mean by this is that he only does the tests, exams, and assignments. The ones that are only worth marks. Yet this guy gets amazing grades. I just don't understand how that's possible.

My husband maintained a perfect 4.0 GPA all the way through his PhD (Physics B.S., Physics M.S. Physics PhD). He never cracked a book. Seriously. None of it was ever difficult for him. The prof I took Classical Mechanics with was also my husband's instructor for the course (though Hubby took it years before me). The prof shared with me this anecdote about my husband:

Hubby always blew the curve on exams in the class. When the class average/mean (minus my husband's score) on an exam was around 60%, Hubby would still get a 98%. So, for the final exam, Prof decided to make the test as hard as he could...like, so hard even grad students would have difficulty with it. The Prof's stated goal (as he later recounted to me) was to see if it were possible for my husband to get a B on anything. So, Prof gives the final; the class average was around 45%; Hubby scored an 90%. Hubby wins.

In short, he's a one-in-3-billion FREAK OF NATURE.

To his credit, Hubby did take AP Calc and AP Physics in high school with very, very good instructors (and he got 5's on the AP exams, natch), so he was very well-prepared for undergraduate physics. He says so much of the first couple years of undergrad physics is a re-hash of the AP curriculum that it was just too easy. In a sense, the AP background allowed him to jump ahead of his classmates, and he just stayed there. When everyone else was cramming for tests, he was in his dorm room playing video games.

That said, Hubby is a brilliant mathematician, but he's not especially creative. He can find the solution to any math or physics problem you put in front of him, but he's not all that good at finding novel research ideas to pursue. He has a good career, but it's unlikely he'll ever win a Nobel, for example, since he's not the creative type of clever that that kind of ground-breaking work entails.

 

[flyingpig]

My husband maintained a perfect 4.0 GPA all the way through his PhD (Physics B.S., Physics M.S. Physics PhD). He never cracked a book. Seriously. None of it was ever difficult for him. The prof I took Classical Mechanics with was also my husband's instructor for the course (though Hubby took it years before me). The prof shared with me this anecdote about my husband:

Hubby always blew the curve on exams in the class. When the class average/mean (minus my husband's score) on an exam was around 60%, Hubby would still get a 98%. So, for the final exam, Prof decided to make the test as hard as he could...like, so hard even grad students would have difficulty with it. The Prof's stated goal (as he later recounted to me) was to see if it were possible for my husband to get a B on anything. So, Prof gives the final; the class average was around 45%; Hubby scored an 90%. Hubby wins.

In short, he's a one-in-3-billion FREAK OF NATURE.

To his credit, Hubby did take AP Calc and AP Physics in high school with very, very good instructors (and he got 5's on the AP exams, natch), so he was very well-prepared for undergraduate physics. He says so much of the first couple years of undergrad physics is a re-hash of the AP curriculum that it was just too easy. In a sense, the AP background allowed him to jump ahead of his classmates, and he just stayed there. When everyone else was cramming for tests, he was in his dorm room playing video games.

That said, Hubby is a brilliant mathematician, but he's not especially creative. He can find the solution to any math or physics problem you put in front of him, but he's not all that good at finding novel research ideas to pursue. He has a good career, but it's unlikely he'll ever win a Nobel, for example, since he's not the creative type of clever that that kind of ground-breaking work entails.

I am not sure about the whole "never crack open a book" before (I am guessing he saved quite a bit of money on textbooks then lol), but in all of my classes, there is always one person at least that destroys the average for everyone. I bet there are tons of them at MIT

 

[Geezer]

I am not sure about the whole "never crack open a book" before (I am guessing he saved quite a bit of money on textbooks then lol), but in all of my classes, there is always one person at least that destroys the average for everyone. I bet there are tons of them at MIT

The ONLY time he ever bothered with a textbook is when he needed the problem sets from the books...and then he just went to the library, photocopied the homework problems, and handed it back to the librarian (our school would only let you check out current-course texts for two hours at a time to prevent kids from checking out a text the whole semester).

Yeah, he saved a lot a money. He's also the cheapest mo-fo you've ever met, so he took a perverse pleasure in not spending several hundred bucks each semester on "useless" textbooks.

 

[flyingpig]

The ONLY time he ever bothered with a textbook is when he needed the problem sets from the books...and then he just went to the library, photocopied the homework problems, and handed it back to the librarian (our school would only let you check out current-course texts for two hours at a time to prevent kids from checking out a text the whole semester).

Yeah, he saved a lot a money. He's also the cheapest mo-fo you've ever met, so he took a perverse pleasure in not spending several hundred bucks each semester on "useless" textbooks.

Did he have a bunch of good professors then? Even if you are incredibly smart, you just can't "know" the results of experiments and such. Like if he never picked up a book before, how does he arrive at the conclusion of Faraday's experiments on magnets and such?

 

[johng23]

I don't understand why someone would pay the cost of university tuition and then not attend the lectures

Well, you're paying for a degree after all. You want to come out having learned something and having credentials which are necessary. If you are the sort of person who tends to zone out in class and not gain all that much, and then need to read that material on your own later, how do you gain anything by sitting in the lecture hall?

I skipped tons of classes in undergrad and still don't usually go in grad school. I just have a short attention span for listening to people talk, and I'm terrible at following math when someone else is writing it out or doing it on slides. I still think I got a good undergrad education though, and the degree got me into grad school, so who cares?

 

[Choppy]

That's the second time in this thread that someone jumped on that statement without quoting at the complete sentence. If it works for you not to attend the lectures, that's great. There's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

Personally, I would feel ripped off and would speak with the lecturers about the situation, maybe even elevate it to the chair of the department (although I'd likely make sure that other students felt the same way first). But then again, no matter how good a lecture is, some people are just better book learners. If you're happy with doing it that way and simply taking advantage of office hours for one-on-one discussions - power to you.

 

[Skrew]

That's the second time in this thread that someone jumped on that statement without quoting at the complete sentence. If it works for you not to attend the lectures, that's great. There's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion.

Personally, I would feel ripped off and would speak with the lecturers about the situation, maybe even elevate it to the chair of the department (although I'd likely make sure that other students felt the same way first). But then again, no matter how good a lecture is, some people are just better book learners. If you're happy with doing it that way and simply taking advantage of office hours for one-on-one discussions - power to you.

I am a by the book learner but I still become throughly annoyed when instructors don't do their job, my personal experience with such situations is that no one in an authority position cares to reprimand the instructor.

Department faculty form their own club and its highly unlikely they will support a student over an instructor.

 

[elfboy]

mandatory lectures /attendance records are a bad idea. I don't know why so many colleges do this. We're adults and we should be graded on performance, not attendance.

 

[Geezer]

mandatory lectures /attendance records are a bad idea. I don't know why so many colleges do this. We're adults and we should be graded on performance, not attendance.

I couldn't agree more.

I have some auditory processing issues that make it very challenging to "get" any information from lectures. The first time I was in college, I avoided attended class unless I had to. But the school had a mandatory attendance policy. I ended up with a 3.3 GPA despite doing 4.0 work...I got docked for attendance (or lack thereof).

Yep, I'm still bitter about it.