How is speed of light in glass defined in QM/QED?

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the definition of the "speed of light in glass" from the perspective of quantum mechanics (QM) and quantum electrodynamics (QED). It examines how light behaves in non-vacuum media and the implications of atomic interactions on light propagation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how the speed of light in glass is defined at the quantum level, suggesting that photons travel at speed c between atoms.
  • Another participant defines the speed of light in glass as the distance light travels divided by the time taken, noting that this varies with different types of glass and involves time spent passing through and between atoms.
  • A different viewpoint states that while the speed of light in vacuum is always c in QED, the speed of light in glass is an emergent property, referencing a previous explanation on photon behavior in solid media.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of dispersion relations, explaining that in a medium, photons interact with excitonic excitations, leading to a lower effective speed compared to free photons in vacuum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views on how the speed of light in glass is defined and understood, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with no consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about atomic interactions, the definitions of speed in various contexts, and the complexity of dispersion relations that are not fully explored.

LarryS
Gold Member
Messages
360
Reaction score
33
How is the "speed of light in glass", or any other non-vacuum classical medium, defined at the quantum level? Between atoms, the photons are traveling exactly at c, right?

As always, thanks in advance.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The "speed of light" in glass is defined in Quantum Physics just as it is in an other field of physics- the distance the light travels through glass divided by the time it takes to travel that distance. In terms of "distance between atoms" that would be an average of the time taken passing "through" an atom and the time taken between atoms. Of course, this varies for different kinds of glass.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: bhobba
The speed of light in vacuum is always c in QED. The speed of light in glass is an emergent property in QED, as is glass itself. See ZappaerZ's explanation: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/do-photons-move-slower-in-a-solid-medium.511177/ .

Feynman also has an accessible explanation, but let me see if I can find it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The speed of light is defined via the dispersion relation between k and omega where the propagator of the photons has a pole. In a medium, a photon will mix with excitonic (electron hole pair) excitations which don't move as fast as a free photon, hence the interacting propagator will have poles corresponding to a lower speed than for photons in vacuo.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 93 ·
4
Replies
93
Views
6K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K