How is the spin force related to electromagnetic wave curl and vector calculus?

  • Thread starter Thread starter jtleafs33
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Curl Force Spin
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between spin force and electromagnetic wave properties, particularly focusing on vector calculus and the mathematical representation of these concepts. The original poster seeks to express the spin force in terms of the curl of a vector quantity and is exploring the implications of complex variables in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the spin force expression and is exploring the implications of using vector calculus identities. They express uncertainty regarding the conjugation of certain terms.
  • Some participants question the notation used, particularly the interpretation of the gradient of a vector field and its implications for the calculations being performed.
  • Others clarify the nature of the electric field vector and its dependence on position and time, while expressing confusion about the notation of the gradient applied to a vector field.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants actively questioning the definitions and mathematical representations involved. There is a clear exchange of ideas, but no consensus has been reached regarding the interpretation of the gradient of the electric field vector.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of vector calculus in the context of electromagnetic theory, with some confusion arising from the notation and definitions used in the original problem statement.

jtleafs33
Messages
28
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


I put this in the math forum because although it's for my EM waves class, it's a math question.

Show that the spin force can be written as:

F_{spin}=\frac{-1}{2}Im(\alpha)Im(E\cdot\nabla E^{*})=\nabla\times L_s

Find L_s.

Where \alpha is complex. I'm using E^{*} to denote the complex conjugate of E. Also, since these are all vectors, I'm omitting the arrow notation atop the vector quantities.

Homework Equations



Im(z)=\frac{1}{2i}(z-z^{*})

The Attempt at a Solution



From the relevant equations:
Im(\alpha)=\frac{1}{2i}[\alpha-\alpha^{*}]
Im(E\cdot\nabla E^{*})=\frac{1}{2i}[E\cdot\nabla E^{*}-(E\cdot\nabla E^{*})^{*}]

Substituting in,
F_{spin}=\frac{1}{8}[\alpha-\alpha^{*}][E\cdot\nabla E^{*}-(E\cdot\nabla E^{*})^{*}]=\nabla\times L_s

Here, in order to make a curl appear, I'd like to apply the identity:
\nabla\times(A\times B)=A(\nabla\cdot B)-B(\nabla\cdot A)+(B\cdot\nabla)A-(A\cdot\nabla)B

However, I'm not sure what the quantity [(E\cdot\nabla E^{*})^{*}] looks like... I don't know how to conjugate this and I'm stuck here for the moment.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
If E is a vector then I'm not sure what ∇E means. ∇.E would be a scalar, making E.(∇.E) problematic. Do you mean ∇×E?
 
E is the electric field vector. it is a function of position and time, so that's just its gradient vector, also a function of position and time.
 
jtleafs33 said:
E is the electric field vector. it is a function of position and time, so that's just its gradient vector, also a function of position and time.
If you have a scalar field f, then ∇f = grad f is the gradient vector. But here you say E is a vector, so I'm at a loss to understand what ∇E represents. See item e) at http://www.math.ucla.edu/~ronmiech/Calculus_Problems/32B/chap14/section5/930d31/930_31.html
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
975
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K