How do I derive this vector calculus identity?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around deriving a vector calculus identity involving the curl of a vector field, specifically the expression \((\nabla\times\vec B) \times \vec B\) and its relation to divergence and tensor analysis. The subject area includes vector calculus and tensor analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of vector identities and the implications of treating vector operators in Cartesian components. There are mentions of specific vector identities and the use of suffix notation for component-wise analysis.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants exploring different approaches to the problem. Some have suggested looking into specific vector calculus identities, while others have raised concerns about the assumptions made regarding vector operators. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity involved in the derivation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the original poster is seeking a derivation without providing a complete solution. There is also a reference to external resources for vector calculus identities, indicating a search for relevant information.

Bright Liu
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Homework Statement
As the title says, how can I get this equation?
Relevant Equations
tensor analysis
##(\nabla\times\vec B) \times \vec B=\nabla \cdot (\vec B\vec B -\frac 1 2B^2\mathcal I)-(\nabla \cdot \vec B)\vec B##
##\mathcal I## is the unit tensor
 
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You need to know these.
$$\mathbf a\times(\mathbf b\times\mathbf c)=\mathbf b(\mathbf a\cdot\mathbf c)-\mathbf c(\mathbf a\cdot\mathbf b)$$$$\mathbf a\cdot(\mathbf b\times\mathbf c)=\mathbf b\cdot(\mathbf c\times\mathbf a)=\mathbf c\cdot(\mathbf a\times\mathbf b)$$
 
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Also note that since ##\mathbf{u} \times \mathbf{v} = -\mathbf{v}\times \mathbf{u}##, you have$$\begin{align*}(\mathbf{a} \times \mathbf{b}) \times \mathbf{c} &= - \mathbf{c} \times (\mathbf{a} \times \mathbf{b})\\ \\
&= \mathbf{a} (-\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{b}) - \mathbf{b}(-\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{a}) = -\mathbf{a}(\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{b}) + \mathbf{b}(\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{a})
\end{align*}$$
 
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etotheipi said:
Also note that since ##\mathbf{u} \times \mathbf{v} = -\mathbf{v}\times \mathbf{u}##, you have$$\begin{align*}(\mathbf{a} \times \mathbf{b}) \times \mathbf{c} &= - \mathbf{c} \times (\mathbf{a} \times \mathbf{b})\\ \\
&= \mathbf{a} (-\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{b}) - \mathbf{b}(-\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{a}) = -\mathbf{a}(\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{b}) + \mathbf{b}(\mathbf{c} \cdot \mathbf{a})
\end{align*}$$
Yes, but you cannot do that with a vector operator. ##\nabla\times\vec A## is not ##-\vec A\times\nabla##.
There’s a page of useful looking identities and their derivations at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_calculus_identities, but I do not see any that apply easily here.
 
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Bright Liu said:
Homework Statement:: As the title says, how can I get this equation?
Relevant Equations:: tensor analysis

##(\nabla\times\vec B) \times \vec B=\nabla \cdot (\vec B\vec B -\frac 1 2B^2\mathcal I)-(\nabla \cdot \vec B)\vec B##
##\mathcal I## is the unit tensor

Suffix notation is generally the best method (this being a more efficient form of "show that each cartesian component of the left hand side is equal to the corresponding cartesian component of the right hand side").

In particular, <br /> \mathcal{I}_{ij} = \delta_{ij} = \begin{cases} 1 &amp; i = j \\ 0 &amp; i \neq j \end{cases} and
<br /> (\mathbf{a} \times \mathbf{b})_i = \epsilon_{ijk}a_jb_k where <br /> \epsilon_{ijk} = \begin{cases} 1 &amp; \mbox{$(i,j,k)$ is an even permutation of (1,2,3)} \\<br /> -1 &amp; \mbox{$(i,j,k)$ is an odd permutation of (1,2,3)} \\<br /> 0 &amp; \mbox{otherwise}\end{cases} together with the identity <br /> \epsilon_{ijk} \epsilon_{kpq} = \delta_{ip}\delta_{jq} - \delta_{iq}\delta_{jp}
 
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haruspex said:
Yes, but you cannot do that with a vector operator. ##\nabla\times\vec A## is not ##-\vec A\times\nabla##.
There’s a page of useful looking identities and their derivations at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vector_calculus_identities, but I do not see any that apply easily here.

Interesting, you're right! My previous, naïve, view was that so long as you work with Cartesian components then it's generally safe to treat ##\nabla \equiv
\begin{pmatrix}
\frac{\partial}{\partial x} & \frac{\partial}{\partial y} & \frac{\partial}{\partial z}
\end{pmatrix}^T##, however you are certainly correct that it doesn't work here, considering that the order of the ##\frac{\partial}{\partial x_i}## and the ##A_j## definitely matters.

In that case, I'll step back and see how yourself and @pasmith approach the problem, for fear of misleading the OP. Working with the components as mentioned in #5 seems like a good idea!
 
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