How is torque converted into propelling force on a vehicle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the conversion of torque into propelling force in vehicles, exploring the underlying physics rather than mechanical mechanisms. Participants raise questions about static friction, conditions for wheel slipping, and the relationship between torque, mass, and acceleration in vehicle design.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to understand how torque translates into propelling force, emphasizing a desire for a physics-based explanation rather than mechanical details.
  • Another participant suggests that the propelling force is derived from the friction force between the tire and the ground, relating torque to friction force through the equation: Wheel Torque = Friction Force X Tire Radius.
  • Questions are raised about whether static friction is the propelling force and how it changes from the start of motion, with one participant noting that friction force induces acceleration.
  • The conditions under which wheels begin to slip are queried, with a reference to friction coefficients provided but no specific conditions stated.
  • Participants discuss how to determine the necessary engine torque for a vehicle of mass 'm' and acceleration 'a', suggesting that vehicle acceleration can be expressed in terms of wheel torque and tire radius.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the terms traction, tractive force, and tractive effort, with some confusion expressed about their definitions and relationships to static friction force and vehicle acceleration.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion contains multiple competing views and remains unresolved, particularly regarding the definitions of traction-related terms and the specifics of how friction force operates in relation to vehicle motion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the definitions of traction, tractive force, and tractive effort, indicating a lack of consensus on these terms. Additionally, the relationship between torque, mass, and acceleration is discussed without a definitive conclusion on the best approach to design engine torque.

koolraj09
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Hi all.
I didn't get it cleared although i tried searching the internet.
1) Firstly, how does a vehicle gets off...i mean how the torque is converted into propelling force. I don't want to know the mechanism, gears etc...i want to know the physics...
2) Another question is that whether static friction force is itself the propelling force in this case? And how the friction force varies from the start. Like at t=0, friction force is totally static. Then how does it proceed on.
3) Also what is the condition when wheels start slipping?
4) If I were to design an engine how would I decide what's the torque of engine to propel a vehicle of say mass 'm' and acceleration 'a'
Just for simplification i assume that at low speeds the drag force is negligible.
5) Lastly, what's the difference between the terms traction, tractive force and tractive effort?
I Googled but everyone has different things to say about it! And is tractive force equal to [mass x acceleration] of the vehicle? or is it equal to the static friction force. I'm totally confused over this topic. Please, help required.
Thanks in advance.
 
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Hey guys...no reply??
Atleast suggest something!
 
Draw yourself a FBD of a tire subject to a weight force down, a normal force upward from the pavement, a friction force from the pavement, a reaction force on the axle, and a torque on the axle. Then write the equations of motion for the tire. This should give you an idea about where the force driving the car forward comes from.
 
koolraj09 said:
1) Firstly, how does a vehicle gets off...i mean how the torque is converted into propelling force. I don't want to know the mechanism, gears etc...i want to know the physics...

The propelling force is the friction force between the tire and the ground. The relationship between the torque and the friction force is Wheel Torque = Friction Force X Tire Radius.

koolraj09 said:
2) Another question is that whether static friction force is itself the propelling force in this case? And how the friction force varies from the start. Like at t=0, friction force is totally static. Then how does it proceed on.

The friction force induces an acceleration to the vehicle, which increases its velocity and then initiate motion. I'm not sure if this answers your question.

koolraj09 said:
3) Also what is the condition when wheels start slipping?

See Sources >> Friction coefficient at the bottom of this page.

koolraj09 said:
4) If I were to design an engine how would I decide what's the torque of engine to propel a vehicle of say mass 'm' and acceleration 'a'
Just for simplification i assume that at low speeds the drag force is negligible.

See Theory >> Longitudinal acceleration >> Accelerating at the bottom of this page. The general case is equation (5b) where you could replace the friction force (Ft) with Wheel Torque / Tire Radius as seen previously. So, assuming no aerodynamics forces or rolling resistance:

Vehicle Acceleration = Wheel Torque / Tire Radius / Vehicle Mass

koolraj09 said:
5) Lastly, what's the difference between the terms traction, tractive force and tractive effort?
I Googled but everyone has different things to say about it! And is tractive force equal to [mass x acceleration] of the vehicle? or is it equal to the static friction force.

All of these terms are related to the tire friction force.
 
Thanks all! I think i got it.
 

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