How photons and static em feilds work

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of photons and their role in electromagnetic (em) fields, particularly in the context of static charges and the forces they exert. Participants explore the conceptual and theoretical implications of photons as force carriers and the visualization of static electric fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that photons are massless particles that must travel at the speed of light, questioning how they function as carriers of the em force in the context of static charges.
  • Another participant suggests that while the force can be described through the exchange of virtual photons, static fields are more intuitively understood without invoking photons.
  • A further reply argues that while virtual photons are not necessary to explain the Coulomb force, they account for dynamical fluctuations beyond static approximations, emphasizing the importance of gauge fixing in the analysis.
  • One participant questions whether the original poster (OP) is considering gauge fixing or if they are influenced by popular explanations that simplify quantum mechanics with the concept of virtual particles.
  • Another participant expresses that the classical understanding of the Coulomb field can be achieved without referencing virtual particles or photons as force carriers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and role of photons in explaining static electric fields and forces. There is no consensus on whether virtual photons are essential for understanding the Coulomb force, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of gauge fixing.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding static fields through the lens of quantum mechanics, particularly regarding the definitions and assumptions surrounding virtual particles and gauge fixing.

MitchellW
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The photon as I understand it is a massless particle that "must" travel at the speed of light.

However I do not understand the idea that a photon is also the carrier of the em force.

If there is a simple ball of static charge and a test charge comes near do photons exchange between the two charge center back and forth, confining themselves to the two charge centers
 
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You can describe this force via the exchange of virtual photons, but static fields are easier to visualize without photons.
 
mfb said:
You can describe this force via the exchange of virtual photons, but static fields are easier to visualize without photons.
That's possible but missleading. Neither the potential nor the virtual photon are gauge invarian terms.

It's more appropriate to apply physical gauge fixing, i.e. setting A° = 0, solving the Gauß constraint G|phys> = 0 and therefore derive the physical Hamiltonian H. H contains physical, transversal photons NOT carrying the static Coulomb interaction, plus a term ~ ρ(x)ρ(y)/|x-y| where ρ are the charge densities (i.e. electron fields). This works both in classical electrodynamics and in full QED.

Therefore (virtual) photons are not required to explain the Coulomb force; they explain just dynamical fluctuations beyond the static approximation.
 
Tom, do you think the OP is wondering about gauge fixing? Or is it more likely he read something in a popularization like "quantum mechanics is just like regular mechanics, except that it has virtual particles, which can temporarily violate the conservation of energy."?
 
I don't know. All I wanted to indicate is that the 0th (classical, static) order of the Coulomb field can be understood w/o mentioning virtual particles an w/o photons as force carriers.
 
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