News How the Republicans washed out under Katrina

[BobG]

Katrina hasn't been bad for all Republicans.

Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, should come out of this looking very good - maybe good enough to push him to a Presidential contender.

Barbour is a former Chairman of the Republican National Committee and has very close ties with the Donald Segretti-Lee Atwater-Karl Rove line of political strategists (in fact, Barbour worked directly with both Rove and Atwater in Republican campaign finance). Having Rove's group helping Barbour campaign means McCain and other Republican candidates can expect another very effective 'lowball' campaign in the Republican primaries.

His close ties with Rove and with Bush give him an advantage in getting federal help. Mississippi should wind up with more help in proportion to their losses than New Orleans, where a Republican federal government will be dealing with Democratic politicians they have little sympathy for. That gives Barbour a good opportunity to contrast how well Mississippi recovers from Katrina to how well New Orleans recovers from Katrina. So far, Barbour ranks second to General Honore of the National Guard in opinion polls about how officials have responded to Katrina - his overall popularity has increased 15% while Blanco (Governor of Louisiana) has dropped 9%.

Dirt wise, he had some problems with Hong Kong money being used to finance Republican campaigns while Barbour was Chairman of the Republican National Committee and he was also embarrassed by the Council of Conservative Citizens when, on their website, they posted a picture of him meeting with CCC leaders at a fundraiser conducted by the CCC (the CCC is the legal, non-violent political wing of the KKK). He claimed he didn't know anything about the CCC when he met them and appeared at their barbecue fundraiser. It is understandable the CCC would like having Barbour appear at one of their functions, since his stance on affirmative action and other peripheral racial issues (Mississippi state flag, etc) line up well with the CCC's views.

 

[Yonoz]

other peripheral racial issues (Mississippi state flag, etc

What's the issue with the Mississippi State flag?

 

[faust9]

What's the issue with the Mississippi State flag?

http://www.50states.com/flag/msflag.htm

see the "X" in the upper left? That was the confederate flag---the flag used by the southern states during the civil war. That portion is offensive to a lot of minorities because it represents a time and a system where they were enslaved and the fact that a state---any state---would honor that fight to enslave is offensive.

http://www.paulduncan.org/files/confederate_flag.jpg
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flags/ms_flag.htm
http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/features/feature2/histconflag.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_flag

 

[Yonoz]

http://www.50states.com/flag/msflag.htm

see the "X" in the upper left? That was the confederate flag---the flag used by the southern states during the civil war. That portion is offensive to a lot of minorities because it represents a time and a system where they were enslaved and the fact that a state---any state---would honor that fight to enslave is offensive.

http://www.paulduncan.org/files/confederate_flag.jpg
http://www.netstate.com/states/symb/flags/ms_flag.htm
http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/features/feature2/histconflag.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_flag

Rather odd how that hasn't been changed.

 

[faust9]

Rather odd how that hasn't been changed.

I agree, but old prejudices die hard.

 

[Yonoz]

I agree, but old prejudices die hard.

Do you mean that in the state of Mississippi there is still such strong prejudice? Or is it simply sentiment to that period - do people not feel enough regret?

 

[selfAdjoint]

Recent statistics show that the percentage of white votes for republicans in southern states has tracked accurately with the size of the black population in each state. For the gulf states with large black populations it's up around 60% but much lower in border states with lower numbers of blacks. This doesn't prove "racism" but it does show that whites tend to have a political preference correlated with their perception of black numbers.

 

[SOS2008]

Katrina hasn't been bad for all Republicans.

Haley Barbour, Governor of Mississippi, should come out of this looking very good - maybe good enough to push him to a Presidential contender.

Barbour is a former Chairman of the Republican National Committee and has very close ties with the Donald Segretti-Lee Atwater-Karl Rove line of political strategists (in fact, Barbour worked directly with both Rove and Atwater in Republican campaign finance). Having Rove's group helping Barbour campaign means McCain and other Republican candidates can expect another very effective 'lowball' campaign in the Republican primaries.

His close ties with Rove and with Bush give him an advantage in getting federal help. Mississippi should wind up with more help in proportion to their losses than New Orleans, where a Republican federal government will be dealing with Democratic politicians they have little sympathy for. That gives Barbour a good opportunity to contrast how well Mississippi recovers from Katrina to how well New Orleans recovers from Katrina. So far, Barbour ranks second to General Honore of the National Guard in opinion polls about how officials have responded to Katrina - his overall popularity has increased 15% while Blanco (Governor of Louisiana) has dropped 9%.

Dirt wise, he had some problems with Hong Kong money being used to finance Republican campaigns while Barbour was Chairman of the Republican National Committee and he was also embarrassed by the Council of Conservative Citizens when, on their website, they posted a picture of him meeting with CCC leaders at a fundraiser conducted by the CCC (the CCC is the legal, non-violent political wing of the KKK). He claimed he didn't know anything about the CCC when he met them and appeared at their barbecue fundraiser. It is understandable the CCC would like having Barbour appear at one of their functions, since his stance on affirmative action and other peripheral racial issues (Mississippi state flag, etc) line up well with the CCC's views.

Bush was an unknown with exception of a well-known name. Grass roots movements have grown tremendously since then to prevent this kind of candidate in the future. Any association with the likes of Rove will be greatly publicized, and dirty politics will be less acceptable to fed-up American citizens. The playing field has changed--maybe even the media will do their jobs (if they don't, the bloggers will?).

Edit: Not to mention ongoing election reform.

 

[BobG]

Bush was an unknown with exception of a well-known name. Grass roots movements have grown tremendously since then to prevent this kind of candidate in the future. Any association with the likes of Rove will be greatly publicized, and dirty politics will be less acceptable to fed-up American citizens. The playing field has changed--maybe even the media will do their jobs (if they don't, the bloggers will?).

Edit: Not to mention ongoing election reform.

How so? Was there ever a proven direct link between the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Vets? How well did the Swift Boat adds go over?

A lot of people say they are fed up with that type of campaigning, but I haven't seen much sign that its effectiveness is diminishing. The idea that it will be less effective in the future is a hope, not a likelihood.

 

[BobG]

Edit: Not to mention ongoing election reform.

Even that is an ongoing struggle. A significant portion of it was very nearly circumvented: http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/092105/frist.html .

Issues like this hurts Frist much more than something like the HCA stock. McCain is more influential in the Senate than the Republican Majority Leader. Frist loses credibility as a Republican leader nearly every time he comes in conflict with McCain.

 

[Informal Logic]

How so? Was there ever a proven direct link between the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Vets? How well did the Swift Boat adds go over?

A lot of people say they are fed up with that type of campaigning, but I haven't seen much sign that its effectiveness is diminishing. The idea that it will be less effective in the future is a hope, not a likelihood.

The lack of WMD was known before the 2004 election, with the 9-11 Commission Report released in August the summer prior. Many thought the lies about the war would hurt Bush's chance for reelection. After the election, polls showed that many Americans still believed the lies, so you are correct.

However, it has made others realize the need to counter propaganda, monitor religious organizations, push for election reforms and investigations, etc. In the meantime, there has been one bungle after another within the Bush regime (Iraq, paid pundits, Terri Schiavo, deficit spending, Katrina) and the GOP (DeLay, Rove, Frist). I don't think people are as complacent now, and opposition has been invigorated (Cindy Sheehan). I do not have an ounce of trust left, and I am already wary about upcoming elections.

 

[2CentsWorth]

Even that is an ongoing struggle. A significant portion of it was very nearly circumvented: http://www.hillnews.com/thehill/export/TheHill/News/Frontpage/092105/frist.html .

Issues like this hurts Frist much more than something like the HCA stock. McCain is more influential in the Senate than the Republican Majority Leader. Frist loses credibility as a Republican leader nearly every time he comes in conflict with McCain.

If the public is made more aware?

These riders attached to bills, or giving themselves a raise in the wee hours of the night, or what DeLay did to siphon funds in his direction... You would think they would be ousted. From the link, here are the names of our trustworthy congressmen:

A spokesman for Senate Assistant Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who has long opposed campaign-finance regulation and is suspected of masterminding the latest effort to water down fundraising limits, said the provision belonged to Sens. Kit Bond (R-Mo.) and Bob Bennett (R-Utah). McConnell’s aide referred questions to their offices.

 

[Astronuc]

Today - Bush avoids Texas and Republican Governor Rick Perry, and sneeks off to Colorado to avoid facing the fiasco of the evacution around Houston.

Hiding out in Colorado, Bush will pretend to be in charge.

Meanwhile, Democrats are trying to get some accounting of the $billions spent by the administration and federal government.

The $400 million allocated to the Corp of Engineers sure didn't help New Orleans.

 

[russ_watters]

Bush was an unknown with exception of a well-known name.

You mean in 2000? Bush was governor of Texas!

 

[Astronuc]

I think SOS means nationally, Bush was unknown to the general population. He was well connected through his father's associates, of course.

Meanwhile in Beaumont -

Nearly 1,300 patients were airlifted out of an airport near Beaumont in a rush Thursday night and Friday morning, but only after the county's top official made a panicked call to Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson for help. Why does it take a call to a US Senator to get help?

Seems even a state run by a Republican governor can't deal very well with a major hurricane.

And Tom Delay promised a federal response like they did with Katrina.

 

[BobG]

Today - Bush avoids Texas and Republican Governor Rick Perry, and sneeks off to Colorado to avoid facing the fiasco of the evacution around Houston.

Hiding out in Colorado, Bush will pretend to be in charge.

Meanwhile, Democrats are trying to get some accounting of the $billions spent by the administration and federal government.

The $400 million allocated to the Corp of Engineers sure didn't help New Orleans.

His original plans had him going to San Antonio or somewhere closer to the activities. He actually listened for once and went where he could monitor all of the response activities without getting in the way.

Bush is at NORTHCOM's headquarters on Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs. That's where different response activities are being coordinated and actually the best place to get the big picture on the overall relief effort.

It makes more sense than the New Orleans photo op with the firemen. If located in the area of the hurricane, you only get a small slice of the picture, plus the security requirements of having a President on site will disrupt the response.

 

[SOS2008]

His original plans had him going to San Antonio or somewhere closer to the activities. He actually listened for once and went where he could monitor all of the response activities without getting in the way.

Bush is at NORTHCOM's headquarters on Peterson AFB, Colorado Springs. That's where different response activities are being coordinated and actually the best place to get the big picture on the overall relief effort.

It makes more sense than the New Orleans photo op with the firemen. If located in the area of the hurricane, you only get a small slice of the picture, plus the security requirements of having a President on site will disrupt the response.

Certainly better than being on vacation at his ranch.

You mean in 2000? Bush was governor of Texas!

I think SOS means nationally, Bush was unknown to the general population. He was well connected through his father's associates, of course.

Yes.

 

[Astronuc]

BTW - Bush is the essentially the same person he was in 2000, then governor of Texas. Makes one wonder on what basis people voted for him as president? Competence, capability, leadership, foresight?

 

[Astronuc]

When Storm Hit, National Guard Was Deluged Too
By SCOTT SHANE and THOM SHANKER, NY Times - Sep 28.

In interviews, Guard commanders and state and local officials in Louisiana said the Guard performed well under the circumstances. But they say it was crippled in the early days by a severe shortage of troops that they blame in part on the deployment to Iraq of 3,200 Louisiana guardsmen. While the Pentagon disputes that Iraq was a factor, those on the ground say the war has clearly strained a force intended to be the nation's bulwark against natural disasters and terrorist attacks.

Reinforcements from other states' National Guard units, slowed by the logistics and red tape involved in summoning troops from civilian jobs and moving them thousands of miles, did not arrive in large numbers until the fourth day after the hurricane passed. The coordinating task was so daunting that Louisiana officials turned to the Pentagon to help organize the appeal for help.

At the convention center, 222 soldiers trained in levee repair, not police work, locked themselves into an exhibit hall at the convention center rather than challenge an angry and desperate crowd of more than 10,000 hurricane victims at the center.

All I can get from Michael Brown's testimony yesterday is
- paraphrasing - "It wasn't my fault. It was the Mayor, it was the Governor - they are both Democrats you know - it was Homeland Security - it was the president. It wasn't me!"

 

[Ivan Seeking]

A 25 year FEMA veteran, Leo Bosner, talks on Nightline
http://www.afge.org/Documents/2005_09_13NightlineBosner.wmv
From:
http://www.afge.org/index.cfm?page=hurricanekatrina&fuse=document&documentID=961

 

[SOS2008]

Associated Press
Updated: 3:29 p.m. ET Oct. 6, 2005

WASHINGTON - Millions of dollars in federal contracts for Hurricane Katrina recovery efforts that were handed out with little or no competition will be rebid to prevent any waste or abuse, FEMA chief R. David Paulison said Thursday.
----------
In the weeks after the storm, more than 80 percent of at least $1.5 billion in FEMA contracts were awarded with little or no competition, or had open-ended or vague terms that previous audits have cited as being highly prone to abuse.

Also there is criticism that the contracts went to other states. On the other side of the coin (literally):

The leaders of the Senate Finance Committee told Snow to carry a message back to the White House that they’re frustrated with the administration for fighting their effort to expand Medicaid health benefits for hurricane victims.

“Unfortunately, the White House is working against me behind the scenes, and I resent that considering how I’ve delivered for the White House so much over the last five years,” said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley, R-Iowa.

“It’s six weeks now. Where is the administration?” asked Sen. Max Baucus of Montana, the panel’s top Democrat. “It is slow-walking, it is opposing, it is obfuscating, it is delaying.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9612060/page/2/