How to Ask a Physics/Astro Department for Job: Tips & Advice

[AstroRoyale]

What is the best way to ask a physics/astro department if they would hire you. Here's the situation. I'm about to get out of grad school, and my wife just found out where she is doing her residency for med school. There are a few smaller colleges and Universities in the area where she will be, but none are really hiring, and I don't personally know anyone at any of the programs. Is it odd to just call them and ask if they want to hire someone? What is the best course of action here, I really don't want to just sit out and do squat for a while, or even worse take some crappy job in IT or something like that. I mean I'd much prefer to be at a larger research institution, but I'm willing to sacrifice on this one, at least for a while.

Any suggestions?

 

[robphy]

What city?

I think it's fair to ask by calling the department. Have a CV ready.

They might have courses that need to be covered... since situations do come up on occasion. [What kind of teaching experience do you have?] There may be unadvertised research opportunities as a postdoc or technician. [What is your field of research?]

Have you looked through http://www.physicstoday.org/jobs/ ?

[You could also contact the medical school and see if they can provide assistance.]

 

[AstroRoyale]

NC, Winston-Salem area. There are several schools in the area, but none seem to be hiring at the moment. My teaching experience is pretty minimal at this point, I've only had to teach a few intro physics labs. I was fortunate enough to have funding through a NASA grant/fellowship. My work is in observational astronomy, I've got lots of publications, but like I said little teaching experience which I'm afraid is going to hurt me in this situation. I got offered a postdoc, but it's not exactly nearby, wondering if it is possible to conjure up some sort of job closer to W-S.

 

[robphy]

You might have to look a little further beyond the city limits... Charlotte, Greensboro, etc... and consider the possibility of living someplace midway.

(I'm in the middle of my own search... with the "two-body problem".)

 

[AstroRoyale]

Yup, the 2 body problem is a pisser. Good luck on your search!

Cheers

 

[kdv]

What is the best way to ask a physics/astro department if they would hire you. Here's the situation. I'm about to get out of grad school, and my wife just found out where she is doing her residency for med school. There are a few smaller colleges and Universities in the area where she will be, but none are really hiring, and I don't personally know anyone at any of the programs. Is it odd to just call them and ask if they want to hire someone? What is the best course of action here, I really don't want to just sit out and do squat for a while, or even worse take some crappy job in IT or something like that. I mean I'd much prefer to be at a larger research institution, but I'm willing to sacrifice on this one, at least for a while.

Any suggestions?

You might want to focus on places that have people in astronomy and/or which offer astronomy classes (undergrad and grad levels) or have some small observatory.
There is nothing wrong with calling the heads of the department or an astronomy prof and inquiring about if they might need someone to teach a course (sometimes they need someone for a single course and might not advertise this) or someone to help with labs or with the observatory if they have one. What will probably happen is that they will say "no, but send us your cv in case something comes up". At th every worst you will have made contact.

What about calling places and offering to go give a talk? If you have done some research you probably cand present something very interesting. That way you will meet people and they will see how good you are at explaining things so that if you leave them your cv afterward you will have a leg up.

You could also offer to give a talk to local astronomy clubs. Who knows who will be in the audience who you coul dend up helping you.


What about contacting planetariums or other places where there is some things done for th egeneral public in the field of astronomy and asking if they are hiring help (and if not, you might still give a talk)

 

[oedipa maas]

Perhaps you can also see if anyone you know at your current university has connections with people at universities you might want to work at. And maybe you can discuss your options with your supervisor. How close are you to finishing? Would it be possible to work long distance for your current supervisor for, say, 6 months after you've defended?

Good luck!

 

[stewartcs]

NC, Winston-Salem area. There are several schools in the area, but none seem to be hiring at the moment. My teaching experience is pretty minimal at this point, I've only had to teach a few intro physics labs. I was fortunate enough to have funding through a NASA grant/fellowship. My work is in observational astronomy, I've got lots of publications, but like I said little teaching experience which I'm afraid is going to hurt me in this situation. I got offered a postdoc, but it's not exactly nearby, wondering if it is possible to conjure up some sort of job closer to W-S.

That's my home town. What schools have you been looking into? Wake Forest, Winston-Salem State, and UNC Greensboro are all within driving distance. Research Trinagle Park in Durham is about 1.5 hours away too. Lot's of jobs there if you don't mind the drive. Also NC State, UNC Chapel Hill, and UNC Charlotte are about 1.5 hours drive as well.

CS

 

[Dr Transport]

Why not look into getting a research contract then use a university depertment close to where you will be living to funnel it thru? Then you could be listed a s Research Assistant Professor on the books and you get experience.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

What is the best way to ask a physics/astro department if they would hire you. Here's the situation. I'm about to get out of grad school, and my wife just found out where she is doing her residency for med school. There are a few smaller colleges and Universities in the area where she will be, but none are really hiring, and I don't personally know anyone at any of the programs. Is it odd to just call them and ask if they want to hire someone? What is the best course of action here, I really don't want to just sit out and do squat for a while, or even worse take some crappy job in IT or something like that. I mean I'd much prefer to be at a larger research institution, but I'm willing to sacrifice on this one, at least for a while.

Any suggestions?

Have you considered teaching High School? Most districts are hurting for qualified math and science teachers and there is a program in NC for folks with enough math/science hours to enter teaching without a teaching degree.

Michael Courtney

 

[AstroRoyale]

High school teaching has crossed my mind, I wouldn't mind doing it if I had to but I would like to try other avenues first. Don't get me wrong, I've got mountains of respect for the H.S. science teachers, but I'd like to stay closer to research if possible. You do have to get certified at some point in the enter with no teaching degree program correct?

 

[robphy]

Just curious...
were you aware of the possible locations where your wife might do her residency for med school?
If so, it might have been a good idea to send out applications to schools in those areas.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

High school teaching has crossed my mind, I wouldn't mind doing it if I had to but I would like to try other avenues first. Don't get me wrong, I've got mountains of respect for the H.S. science teachers, but I'd like to stay closer to research if possible. You do have to get certified at some point in the enter with no teaching degree program correct?

You have to work toward certification by taking one or two educational courses per year. Most can be taken on-line and are pretty easy.

I'm not suggesting a permanent career change, unless you end up really liking it. My point is that teaching high-school is a viable way to tread water at just about any location (after following a spouse to a location) while you wait for a more appealing job to open up. By May, all the research and college level teaching positions for next year will likely be filled, and the High School teaching searches are in full swing.

Michael Courtney

 

[Moonbear]

If you can't get a post-doc at any of those schools, my next suggestion would be looking for community colleges and seeing if they need anyone to teach one or two classes. It wouldn't be full-time work, but at least you won't feel like you're twiddling your thumbs waiting for your wife to finish her residency. There is often a need for people to teach a class or two here and there, and community colleges will take people with just a little teaching experience when there's no one else to teach a subject. Plus, if you're at all considering an academic career, the teaching experience will be beneficial in the long run, and when you don't have to juggle it with research, it's a good time to get the practice.

Otherwise, you might want to look into some alternative careers...jobs in industry?

You could also consider working as a substitute teacher...someone who knows science and math would be in high demand as a sub for the local teachers in those subjects. And, it would be something you could easily walk away from if something better opened up...as well as being something you could do while leaving plenty of time for interviewing.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Why not look into getting a research contract then use a university depertment close to where you will be living to funnel it thru? Then you could be listed a s Research Assistant Professor on the books and you get experience.

This sounds very, very difficult to me. First, only a small fraction of proposals actually get funded, including those from established groups. Second, one of the things reviewers look at is whether or not the PI has the resources to do what is proposed. "Not right now, but if you give me the money, I'll try and find a university to give me some lab space" is likely not to fill the review panel with confidence.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

If you can't get a post-doc at any of those schools, my next suggestion would be looking for community colleges and seeing if they need anyone to teach one or two classes. It wouldn't be full-time work, but at least you won't feel like you're twiddling your thumbs waiting for your wife to finish her residency. There is often a need for people to teach a class or two here and there, and community colleges will take people with just a little teaching experience when there's no one else to teach a subject. Plus, if you're at all considering an academic career, the teaching experience will be beneficial in the long run, and when you don't have to juggle it with research, it's a good time to get the practice.

Otherwise, you might want to look into some alternative careers...jobs in industry?

You could also consider working as a substitute teacher...someone who knows science and math would be in high demand as a sub for the local teachers in those subjects. And, it would be something you could easily walk away from if something better opened up...as well as being something you could do while leaving plenty of time for interviewing.

Part-time community college work pays so poorly that it is more akin to charity than gainful employment. And the part-timers (adjuncts) rarely get hired to full time positions. (Why buy the cow when you're getting the milk for free?) Most CC's use their full time positions to lure in talent from out of town.

Michael Courtney

 

[Moonbear]

Part-time community college work pays so poorly that it is more akin to charity than gainful employment. And the part-timers (adjuncts) rarely get hired to full time positions. (Why buy the cow when you're getting the milk for free?) Most CC's use their full time positions to lure in talent from out of town.

Michael Courtney

But if he's only there while his wife is doing a residency, he's not going to be looking to get hired on permanently. It sure is better than sitting around twiddling one's thumbs, and provides a chance to get some teaching experience on the CV before looking for a proper post-doc position to build up the research experience when he has a better idea where his wife is going to settle after her residency (or when she can take a turn following him). And, if he starts contacting people now for post-doc positions, something might open up in January that's not open now, so he can get a year and a half of experience after just a semester of community college teaching to keep him from going stir crazy. The LAST thing one wants on their CV is a long gap of complete unemployment. And, if he didn't get any teaching experience during his graduate school training, it's really unlikely he'll get any during a post-doc, so this is a perfect chance to get some.

Residency matches were only announced about 2 weeks ago, so this is the earliest he could really start looking for anything. There is still a chance he could locate someone with some funding and the ability to take on a postdoc with enough time for the position to be created and advertised and hired for a September start date, but since residencies start in July, he's still going to have a couple months of thumb-twiddling when it might be possible to teach a summer class at a community college.

 

[robphy]

Residency matches were only announced about 2 weeks ago, so this is the earliest he could really start looking for anything.

How many possible locations would be in play?
In anticipation of the announcement, I would have sent out applications to institutions in those areas.

In my own two-body job searches, my wife and I have sent out applications to numerous places with nearby opportunities in various capacities (tenure-track, visiting, postdoc, corporate)... often with different timelines for announcements, deadlines, conducting interviews, and making final decisions.

Is it just that there are too many residency match possibilities to target effectively?

 

[Dr. Courtney]

How many possible locations would be in play?
In anticipation of the announcement, I would have sent out applications to institutions in those areas.

In my own two-body job searches, my wife and I have sent out applications to numerous places with nearby opportunities in various capacities (tenure-track, visiting, postdoc, corporate)... often with different timelines for announcements, deadlines, conducting interviews, and making final decisions.

Is it just that there are too many residency match possibilities to target effectively?

I agree, the two body job search is best done in parallel, with both spouses actively looking for jobs in a number (5-10) select locations. Yes, it's a lot of work to send out all those applications, but beginning an academic job search in April is sub-optimal because most of the good jobs are already taken.

Michael Courtney

 

[Dr. Courtney]

But if he's only there while his wife is doing a residency, he's not going to be looking to get hired on permanently. It sure is better than sitting around twiddling one's thumbs, and provides a chance to get some teaching experience on the CV before looking for a proper post-doc position to build up the research experience

I'm not sure CC teaching experience counts for much for most PhDs looking to teach at research schools.

CC teaching experience says "I gave away credit in physics to students who probably did not earn it."

Michael Courtney

 

[Poop-Loops]

I'm not sure CC teaching experience counts for much for most PhDs looking to teach at research schools.

CC teaching experience says "I gave away credit in physics to students who probably did not earn it."

Michael Courtney

It makes me feel at ease knowing that even Doctors can say completely stupid things.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

It makes me feel at ease knowing that even Doctors can say completely stupid things.

My wife and I have both taught at community colleges and then subsequently applied to a number of four year schools. There is a definite impression in the mind of many people on the subsequent hiring committees that many community college students have not eared the credit.

This impression is mostly formed from the experience that professors at 4 year schools have with transfer students from community colleges. Most have noticed that transfer students entering a 1st semester physics course are unlikely to have the proper pre-requisite math skills and that transfer students entering a 2nd semester physics course do not have the pre-requisite physics skills (vector analysis is usually weak).

I taught the second semester of an algebra-based physics sequence a number of times. Over the years, we had a number of community college transfer students in the course who had the first semester of the sequence at a community college. Not a single community college transfer student ever passed the course.

Most faculty members at four year schools know from direct experience that there are real quality control problems at the community colleges. I'm not saying that it is impossible to get hired at a four year school after teaching at a community college, but one's application will probably be received with the impression that one was giving away credit at the community college. My wife and I were able to counter this impression by publishing several papers emphasizing our interest in academic rigor. PhD's from Harvard and MIT didn't hurt either.

Michael Courtney

 

[AstroRoyale]

She had to apply to a LOT of schools, like 45-50 due to competition, and they were fairly homogeneously distributed across the nation. We did try to concentrate on D.C. area to some extent, lots of schools up there.

I decided to take the postdoc anyway, away from the missus. The good thing is that I have considerable freedom to work from where ever I want, as long as work gets done. So I'll split time in between locations and rack up miles on the 15 year old car. I'll keep looking and/or tricking local departments to hire me, so I'm in the same boat really. I thought things were supposed to get easier after the phud :)

Cheers

 

[Dr. Courtney]

The challenge with a PhD is that there are usually only a few PhD level jobs open in academia in any given year once you fix the geographic location.

Michael

 

[robphy]

I think having some non-trivial teaching experience would make one competitive for visiting positions at the smaller [and more numerous] colleges.

 

[Poop-Loops]

My wife and I have both taught at community colleges and then subsequently applied to a number of four year schools. There is a definite impression in the mind of many people on the subsequent hiring committees that many community college students have not eared the credit.

This impression is mostly formed from the experience that professors at 4 year schools have with transfer students from community colleges. Most have noticed that transfer students entering a 1st semester physics course are unlikely to have the proper pre-requisite math skills and that transfer students entering a 2nd semester physics course do not have the pre-requisite physics skills (vector analysis is usually weak).

I taught the second semester of an algebra-based physics sequence a number of times. Over the years, we had a number of community college transfer students in the course who had the first semester of the sequence at a community college. Not a single community college transfer student ever passed the course.

Most faculty members at four year schools know from direct experience that there are real quality control problems at the community colleges. I'm not saying that it is impossible to get hired at a four year school after teaching at a community college, but one's application will probably be received with the impression that one was giving away credit at the community college. My wife and I were able to counter this impression by publishing several papers emphasizing our interest in academic rigor. PhD's from Harvard and MIT didn't hurt either.

Michael Courtney

That's super.

I came from a community college and did just as well as anybody else in my class at my current University. The thing is, my CC actively tried to raise its level to that of the local university (University of Washington) so that kids wouldn't fail when they transferred over.

If the CC's in your area were garbage, then that's your (or I guess their) problem. Don't start saying that all CC's are suddenly useless. In fact, there were 4 of us at my CC who decided to major in physics back then. We're at the same University now, doing well for ourselves.

 

[quadraphonics]

I came from a community college and did just as well as anybody else in my class at my current University. The thing is, my CC actively tried to raise its level to that of the local university (University of Washington) so that kids wouldn't fail when they transferred over.

If the CC's in your area were garbage, then that's your (or I guess their) problem. Don't start saying that all CC's are suddenly useless. In fact, there were 4 of us at my CC who decided to major in physics back then. We're at the same University now, doing well for ourselves.

Yeah, the CC transfers where I went to school tended to have *better* pre-req skills than the 4-year university kids. They'd always laugh about how easy my calc and physics classes were (and they were right, those classes were a joke). But then, I happened to go to school in a region with lots of very talented immigrants who have trouble gaining entry directly to the Universities because they're still coming up to speed on language skills...

 

[symbolipoint]

Dr. Courtney, the problem in community colleges is not just the quality of instruction; it is also the frequent poorer level of focus that students exhibit. You can find some instructors who give good instruction and some who give poor instruction. You could and often will find many students whose focus on their courses is weaker than what it needs to be, even when the instruction is good or excellent. I have already seen this enough, at least as a student myself.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

That's super.

I came from a community college and did just as well as anybody else in my class at my current University. The thing is, my CC actively tried to raise its level to that of the local university (University of Washington) so that kids wouldn't fail when they transferred over.

If the CC's in your area were garbage, then that's your (or I guess their) problem. Don't start saying that all CC's are suddenly useless. In fact, there were 4 of us at my CC who decided to major in physics back then. We're at the same University now, doing well for ourselves.

It's great to hear that there is a community college somewhere doing its job well. However, our experience covered a number of community colleges in four different states.

Michael Courtney

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Dr. Courtney, the problem in community colleges is not just the quality of instruction; it is also the frequent poorer level of focus that students exhibit. You can find some instructors who give good instruction and some who give poor instruction. You could and often will find many students whose focus on their courses is weaker than what it needs to be, even when the instruction is good or excellent. I have already seen this enough, at least as a student myself.

Actually, there is an important distinction between quality of instruction and academic rigor. A professor can do a fine job teaching the material, but also fail to design tests and grading policy to prevent students from passing who have not worked hard enough to learn the material.

In other words, a professor's job is not only to teach the material, but also to function as a quality control gatekeeper to ensure that student grades reflect their true level of accomplishment in a given course.

I did encounter sub-optimal student focus in my physics courses at the community focus. They had passed so many other courses without completing homework that they thought that they could pass mine also. Correcting the problem of student focus enabled the department to raise student success rates in the physics courses from 35% to 85% in the time I was there.

Correcting the problem of student focus requires effectively communicating the impossibility of passing without completion of homework. My colleagues and I published a paper entitled "Five Frequently Fatal Freshman Physics Fantasies" in Physics Education 42 116, (2007).

See:
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0605/0605152.pdf

Also see our paper "Who is the customer in higher education?"

http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0612/0612117.pdf

Michael Courtney

 

[quadraphonics]

It's great to hear that there is a community college somewhere doing its job well. However, our experience covered a number of community colleges in four different states.

Given that there are 50 states containing literally thousands of community colleges, I'm not convinced that adds up to the authority to make general blanket statements about the quality of community college education.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Given that there are 50 states containing literally thousands of community colleges, I'm not convinced that adds up to the authority to make general blanket statements about the quality of community college education.

Good point, but there are good reasons that many (public and private) institutions are reluctant to accept transfer credit in Physics from community colleges. Usually, public 4 year schools only accept CC transfer credit in Physics if the legislature (or other governmental authority) forces them to or if they can be convinced that a specific CC is doing a good job.

Of course, most four year schools will grant credit for a 4 or 5 on the appropriate AP Physics test. However, I have never seen a CC transfer student who would have a snowball's chance in hell of earning a 4 or 5 on the appropriate AP Physics test.

Michael Courtney

 

[quadraphonics]

Good point, but there are good reasons that many (public and private) institutions are reluctant to accept transfer credit in Physics from community colleges. Usually, public 4 year schools only accept CC transfer credit in Physics if the legislature (or other governmental authority) forces them to or if they can be convinced that a specific CC is doing a good job.

Well, in California (btw, the California Community College system is the largest system of higher education in the world), the lower-divison cirriculum is developed jointly by UC, CSU and the CCs to ensure uniform high standards across the board, and so make credits transferrable. As it turns out, the CC versions of these classes are typically much harder than the UC versions.

However, I have never seen a CC transfer student who would have a snowball's chance in hell of earning a 4 or 5 on the appropriate AP Physics test.

Can't comment on the AP test, but I personally know transfer students (one of whom was a high school dropout) that have PhD's in physics, control systems, EE and other "difficult" fields. The fact is that the level of engagement of the student with the material is much more important to academic success than the quality of the school, and there are a considerable number of people who do not find their drive and interest until a bit later in life, and so end up in CCs as prospective transfer students. It may well be that there are a lot of doofuses sitting in CC classrooms across the nation, but to suggest that the instructors there aren't doing a good job, or that transfer students aren't up to par, is ridiculous. In my experience, transfer students have a much better attitude and work ethic than 4-year university students, as they've typically had to work much harder to get where they are, compared to the blase, entitled attitude you'll see among 4-year students.

 

[Dr. Courtney]

Good point, but there are good reasons that many (public and private) institutions are reluctant to accept transfer credit in Physics from community colleges. Usually, public 4 year schools only accept CC transfer credit in Physics if the legislature (or other governmental authority) forces them to or if they can be convinced that a specific CC is doing a good job.

Of course, most four year schools will grant credit for a 4 or 5 on the appropriate AP Physics test. However, I have never seen a CC transfer student who would have a snowball's chance in hell of earning a 4 or 5 on the appropriate AP Physics test.

Michael Courtney

You might also have a look at my final exam (below) from an algebra-based physics course. Could you pass this final? If not, you'd have a hard time passing subsequent courses at most big state schools.

Many community colleges simply do not tolerate requiring this level of rigor to pass a physics course, because too many students fail due to poor work habits and inadaquate math backgrounds. Student complaints result in administrative pressure on the instructors to make the course easier to pass.

Michael Courtney

1. A 1500 kg car travels northward at 15 m/s, and a 3000 kg truck travels east at 10 m/s. The vehicles collide and stick together. What is the velocity of the cars immediately after the collision?
2. A stone thrown off a bridge 15 m over a river has an initial velocity of 15 m/s at an angle of 45 degrees above the horizontal. A) What is the range of the stone? B) At what velocity does the stone strike the water?
3. A 2.5 m long board has a mass of 30 kg and is supported on each ends by two vertical ropes. A 90 kg window washer stands 0.75 m from the left end of the board. What is the tension in each of the ropes?
4. A girl pushes a 35 kg lawn mower on a level surface with a force of 20N. The handle of the mower makes a 30 degree angle with the horizontal. A) What is the acceleration of the mower? B) What is the normal force exerted on the mower by the lawn?
5. A cylinder (I = ½ mR*R) starts at rest and rolls without slipping down a 25 degree inclined plane a distance of 20m. A) What is the velocity of the cylinder when it reaches the bottom? B) How much time did the cylinder take to reach the bottom? C) What was the acceleration of the center of mass of the cylinder?
6. A merry-go-round accelerating uniformly from rest achieves its operating speed of 2.5 rpm in five revolutions. What is the magnitude of its angular acceleration?
7. What is the pressure on an aluminum cylinder 10,000 m deep in water?
8. 100 ml of hot water at 100 deg C is added to a 0.1 kg aluminum cup containing a 0.03 kg steel spoon, both initially at 20 deg C. The water, cup, and spoon can be considered a closed system and reach an equilibrium temperature of 84.7 deg C. a) Compute the entropy change of the water. b) Compute the entropy change of the spoon. c) Compute the total entropy change of the closed system.

 

[cristo]

You might also have a look at my final exam (below) from an algebra-based physics course.

What is that though? A high school, community college or university exam? If it's the latter, then I can't see how any student entering university to take a Physics degree has any chance if he can't answer those questions!

Anyway... last thing I read, this thread was about finding a job, not entering university

 

[mal4mac]

Not all IT jobs are crappy. Look closely at what's on offer. For instance, you might get to design computer aided learning packages for physics, or help physics students/researchers in advanced programming projects...

 

[Moonbear]

Not all IT jobs are crappy. Look closely at what's on offer. For instance, you might get to design computer aided learning packages for physics, or help physics students/researchers in advanced programming projects...

This thread is old enough that the decision would have already been made (residencies start in July). Though, I'd be curious to know if the OP is still with us and has found a satisfactory position.