How to calculate amount of vapor given q(t) and p(t)?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around modeling the mass flow of water vapor as a function of time, given specific inputs such as initial mass, temperature, pressure, and time-dependent heat and pressure functions. The focus is on theoretical and mathematical modeling within the context of thermodynamics and fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Stefan proposes a model to calculate the mass flow of water vapor based on initial conditions and time-dependent functions of heat and pressure.
  • Stefan mentions using enthalpy comparisons to determine when vapor is released, specifically comparing system enthalpy to maximum enthalpy at the boiling point.
  • Some participants express concerns about the adequacy of constraints in the problem setup, suggesting that more specific parameters are needed.
  • Chet raises questions about the system's configuration, including whether it is open or closed, the presence of air, heat loss, and thermal inertia, which could affect the model's accuracy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not appear to reach consensus on the adequacy of the problem constraints or the assumptions necessary for the model. Multiple views on the necessary parameters and system characteristics remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of defining temperature and pressure ranges, as well as the system's configuration, which may influence the modeling approach. Specific assumptions about heat loss and thermal inertia are also highlighted as potentially significant.

Stefan2015
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Hi everybody,

I am trying to build a small model which basically should be able output "mass flow of water vapor as a function of time" given following inputs:
- initial mass liquid water m_l_0 [kg]
- initial temperature of liquid water T_l_0 [°C]
- initial pressure p_0 [Pa]
- heat added as a function of time q(t) [J/s]
- pressure as a function of time p(t) [Pa]

So for example a vessel with m_l_0 = 100 kg and T_l_0 = 80 °C is given.
The heat added function q(t) = q1 for time t>=0 & t<t1 and q(t) = q2 for t>=t1.
The pressure p(t) is given as a linear function with p(t) = p_0 - C x T, with C being some constant [Pa/°C].

Given this example, what will the mass flow of water vapor m_vap(t) be?

I started by calculating the system given enthalpy H_sys = m x T x cp and comparing it to the maximum enthalpy of the system at boiling point H_max = m x T_boil(p) x cp (which is pressure dependent). Once H_sys >H_max vapor will be released...

I would like to know how what you think will be the best approach for to do so?

Thank you!


Stefan
 
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You haven't constrained your problem adequately. Please give it another try.
 
Bystander said:
You haven't constrained your problem adequately. Please give it another try.

You mean temperature and pressure constraints?

Ranges of temperature I am looking into:
0-150°C

Pressure range:
60 000 - 140 000 Pa (0.06-0.14 MPa)
 
Is this in an open container or a closed container? Is there air present, or is the entire pressure comprised of water vapor pressure? Is the system insulated, aside from the heat added? Does the container have thermal inertia?

Chet
 
Hi Chet,

Answers to your question:
- Open container
- Container is filled with air
- No heat loses
- Thermal inertia is not considered

Thank you and a happy new year!

Stefan
 

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