How to Calculate π^σ If We Have 2 Disjoint Cycles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of the expression π^σ where π and σ are defined as disjoint cycles in the context of cyclic permutations. Participants explore methods to compute this expression and clarify definitions related to cycle notation and inverses.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the calculation of π^σ given two disjoint cycles, expressing familiarity with powers of a single cycle but uncertainty about the disjoint case.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the definition of π^σ, suggesting it may be defined as σ ∘ π ∘ σ⁻¹.
  • There is a proposal that π^σ could be calculated using the expression σ⁻¹ * π * σ, although one participant expresses difficulty in finding σ⁻¹.
  • A participant explains how to find the inverse of a cycle by reversing its order and provides a general formula for the inverse of a product of cycles.
  • Examples are provided to illustrate the calculation of inverses, but the application to the original problem remains under discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and methods for calculating inverses of cycles, but there is no consensus on the exact approach to compute π^σ, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific calculation.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully defined the operation π^σ, leading to varying interpretations and methods for calculation. The discussion includes assumptions about the properties of cycles and their inverses that may not be universally accepted.

FoxMCloud
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Suppose we have 2 disjoint cycles π and σ. How can one calculate π^σ?
I know how to calculate σ^2 or σ^3 but I can't figure out how to solve that.
 
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Are you talking about cycles in the sense of cyclic permutations? The first question would be how we define \pi^\sigma.
 
Yes cyclic permuations. For example if\pi= (147)(263859) and σ=(16789)(2345) how can we calculate \pi^σ
 
FoxMCloud said:
Yes cyclic permuations. For example if\pi= (147)(263859) and σ=(16789)(2345) how can we calculate \pi^σ

How did you define ##\pi^\sigma##? Did you define it as ##\sigma \circ \pi \circ \sigma^{-1}##?
 
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I think it's something along the lines of σ^(-1)*\pi*σ. But then again, I'm not seeing how can I calculate σ^(-1).
 
FoxMCloud said:
I think it's something along the lines of σ^(-1)*\pi*σ. But then again, I'm not seeing how can I calculate σ^(-1).

If you have one cycle, then you can find the inverse by reversing the cycle. So if \sigma = (1 ~2~5~3), then \sigma^{-1} = (3~5~2~1)

Then if you have a more general form, then you can calculate the inverse by the formula ##(\sigma\tau)^{-1}= \tau^{-1}\sigma^{-1}##.

For example, if you have ##(1~4~6)(3~2)##, then the inverse is ##(2~3)(6~4~1)##.

So now you can find ##\sigma^{-1}## and thus also ##\pi^\sigma##. However, for a general theorem which makes this a LOT easier: http://www.proofwiki.org/wiki/Cycle_Decomposition_of_Conjugate
 
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