How to calculate the composition of pullbacks and pushforwards?

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The discussion focuses on proving the relationships between pushforwards and pullbacks of composite functions, specifically that (g∘f)_* = g_* ∘ f_* and (g∘f)^* = f^* ∘ g^*. Participants analyze the definitions of pushforward and pullback, emphasizing the importance of notation and clarity in expressions. There is confusion regarding the notation for evaluating derivatives and the nature of the covector field ω. The conversation suggests using diagrams for better understanding the mappings involved. Ultimately, the goal is to demonstrate these relationships through careful manipulation of the definitions and properties of differentials.
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Homework Statement


"If ##f:\mathbb{R}^n \rightarrow \mathbb{R}^m## and ##g:\mathbb{R}^m\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^p##, show that ##(g\circ f)_*=g_*\circ f_*## and ##(g\circ f)^* = f^* \circ g^*##."

Homework Equations


Pushforward: ##f_*(v_a)=(Df(a)(v))_{f(a)}##
Pullback: ##f^*(\omega)(a)(v_a)=\omega(f(a))(f_*(v_a))=\omega(f(a))(Df(a)(v))_{f(a)}##

The Attempt at a Solution


This is my attempt for the first part:

##(g\circ f)_*(v_a)=(D(g\circ f)(a)(v))_{(g\circ f)(a)}=(Dg(f(a))Df(a)(v))_{g(f(a))}##

I don't know how to proceed from here, and I'm pretty sure that the subscript on the last term in my expression is wrong.
 
Last edited:
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Eclair_de_XII said:

Homework Statement


"If ##f:\mathbb{R}^n \rightarrow \mathbb{R}^m## and ##g:\mathbb{R}^m\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^p##, show that ##(g\circ f)_*=g_*\circ f_*## and ##(g\circ f)^* = f^* \circ g^*##."

Homework Equations


Pushforward: ##f_*(v_a)=(Df(a)(v))_{f(a)}##
Pullback: ##f^*(\omega)(a)(v_a)=\omega(f(a))(f_*(v_a))=\omega(f(a))(Df(a)(v))_{f(a)}##

The Attempt at a Solution


This is my attempt for the first part:

##(g\circ f)_*(v_a)=(D(g\circ f)(a)(v))_{(g\circ f)(a)}=(Dg(f(a))Df(a)(v))_{g(f(a))}##

I don't know how to proceed from here, and I'm pretty sure that the subscript on the last term in my expression is wrong.
You're done with the pushforwards.
##(g\circ f)_*(v_a)=(D(g\circ f)(a)(v_a))_{(g\circ f)(a)}=\underbrace{(Dg(f(a))_{g(f(a))}}_{g_*}) ( \underbrace{Df(a))_{f(a)}}_{f_*} )(v_a)##
 
Okay, so I have for pullback:

##(f\circ g)^*(\omega)(a)(v_a)=\omega((f\circ g)(a))((f\circ g)_*(v_a))=\omega(f(g(a)))(Dg(f(a))_{g(f(a))})(Df(a))_{f(a)}##

Sorry, I don't know how to proceed for this one, as well.
 
Let me first add a remark on your first solution. You have a bit too many, i.e. unnecessary notations of the point of evaluation. Usually students don't realize, that they actually talk about ##f\,'(x)_{x=c}## when they write ##f\,'(x)##. Your notation not only avoids this mistake, you doubled the avoidance.

##D## is the differential operator. It applies to functions ##f##. The result is a tangent (vector space) bundle, which when evaluated at a certain point, turns into a specific tangent (vector) space, which we denote by ##Df(a)=D_af##. To write ##D_a(f)(a)## is a double which might confuse readers. Now since our functions are multidimensional, we have tangents in various directions ##v##. A tangent in direction of ##v## at a point ##a## is therefore ##D_af(v)=D_af \cdot v## since our approximation by tangents is a linear operator, a (matrix) multiplication by ##v##. In sum we have:
  • ##Df =D(f)## = tangent (vector space) bundle: all tangent spaces at all possible locations
  • ##D_af=D_a(f)## = tangent space at a specific point of evaluation ##a##, a certain tangent space from the bundle; vector space because or tangents have more than one possible direction, as our function is multidimensional, and so are its tangents
  • ##D_af(v)=D_a(f)(v)=D_af \cdot v## = tangent from our tangent (vector) space at ##a## in direction ##v##
Thus your notation ##f_*(v_a)=(Df(a)(v))_{f(a)}## is a bit overloaded. Better is ##f_*(a)(v)=(D_af)(v)=D_af \cdot v## or even shorter ##f_*(a)=D_af\,.## To write ##f(a)## in the index is already confusing. E.g. for ##f\, : \,x \longmapsto x^2## we write ##f\,'(a)=\left. \dfrac{d}{dx}\right|_{x=a}f## and not ##f\,'(a)=\left. \dfrac{d}{dx}\right|_{a^2}f\,.##

If you find time, you might want to read this little series: https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/the-pantheon-of-derivatives-i/
(Vector fields start in part 2, pullbacks in part 3)
 
Last edited:
Eclair_de_XII said:
Okay, so I have for pullback:

##(f\circ g)^*(\omega)(a)(v_a)=\omega((f\circ g)(a))((f\circ g)_*(v_a))=\omega(f(g(a)))(Dg(f(a))_{g(f(a))})(Df(a))_{f(a)}##

Sorry, I don't know how to proceed for this one, as well.
First let's drop all variables which are not needed. We have to show that ##(f\circ g)^*(\omega) = g^*(f^*(\omega))##. I suggest to start with the expression on the right, and if you like, you can appoint evaluation points and directions afterwards. You should first draw a diagram to see which function maps from where to where, in order to avoid mistake.
 
Okay, I'm a bit confused on what ##\omega## is supposed to be in this context. From what I've learned, it's a covector field that assigns to each ##a\in T_a\mathbb{R}^n## a real number. But it can't be right, since ##f^*## is a function from ##\mathbb{R}^m\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^n##.
 
Eclair_de_XII said:
Okay, I'm a bit confused on what ##\omega## is supposed to be in this context. From what I've learned, it's a covector field that assigns to each ##a\in T_a\mathbb{R}^n## a real number. But it can't be right, since ##f^*## is a function from ##\mathbb{R}^m\rightarrow \mathbb{R}^n##.
If you have your manifolds to be ##\mathbb{R}^n##, then it's difficult to see what is manifold and what is a tangent vector or covector.

For more clarity, let's say we have a smooth function ##f\, : \,M \longrightarrow N##. Now ##\omega_q## assigns a real number to every tangent at ##q\in N##, i.e. ##\omega_q\, : \,T_qN \longrightarrow \mathbb{R}## and ##\omega_q## is an element of the dual vector space of ##T_qN##. The differential form ##\omega## now is the function ##\omega\, : \,N \longrightarrow (T_{(.)}N)^*##, i.e. point to cotangent.

This means ##\omega_b(v_b)\in \mathbb{R}##. We have two functions here. Firstly we have ##\omega## which assigns a cotangent space to a point of ##b \in N\, : \,\omega(b)=\omega_b \in (T_bN)^*##. Secondly, this image ##\omega_b## is itself a function, since cotangent means the dual space of linear maps ##T_bN \longrightarrow \mathbb{R}##, so ##\omega_b(v_b) \in \mathbb{R}##. And to make confusion complete, we now consider points ##a=f(b)\in M## since we want to pull back ##\omega## along ##f## to have the analog situation on ##M##.

That was what I meant by: Draw a diagram to make clear where you are at a certain point in the formula!
$$((f^*(\omega))_{a})(v_a)=\omega_{f(a)}(f_*(v_a))=\omega_{f(a)}(D_af(v_a))\in \mathbb{R}$$
Have a look in https://www.physicsforums.com/insights/pantheon-derivatives-part-iii/ section Cotangents and 1-Forms
What we have here is basically the transpose (##{.}^\tau##) of the Jacobian matrix at a certain point and you are requested to show that
$$(J_x \cdot J_y)^\tau=J_y^\tau \cdot J_x^\tau$$
since for ##A\, : \,V\longrightarrow W## we get ##A^\tau\, : \,W^*\longrightarrow V^*## where ##V^*=\operatorname{Hom}(V,\mathbb{R})##.
It's linear algebra.
 

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