How to connect the winding number's definition to geometrical intuition?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the winding number of a closed curve and its geometric interpretation, particularly focusing on the definition and uniqueness of the argument function in complex analysis. Participants explore the implications of defining the argument function uniquely and its relevance to the winding number's calculation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the winding number as a measure of how many times a curve winds around a point, with a winding number of 1 indicating that the point is inside the curve.
  • There is a discussion about the definition of the winding number involving the integral of the form \(\int\limits_\gamma {\frac{{dz}}{{z - a}}\), and how this relates to the argument function.
  • One participant questions the necessity of defining the argument function uniquely, expressing confusion about how it can be defined in a non-unique way.
  • Another participant clarifies that while the argument function has ambiguities, the differential \(d(\arg(z-a))\) can be uniquely defined, provided that the curve does not pass through the point \(a\).
  • There is a suggestion that defining \(d(\arg(z-a))\) uniquely can be achieved by ensuring it is a continuous function of a parameter along the curve.
  • Participants discuss the implications of defining the argument function in relation to the winding number and the potential issues that arise if it is not uniquely defined.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of defining the argument function uniquely for the discussion to be consistent, but there remains uncertainty about the implications of this requirement and how it can be achieved.

Contextual Notes

Participants express confusion regarding the definition of the argument function and its implications for the winding number, indicating that there are unresolved aspects related to the uniqueness of the argument function and its continuity along the curve.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in complex analysis, particularly those exploring the concepts of winding numbers and argument functions in mathematical contexts.

kakarotyjn
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We know the winding number as a curve winds round a point.If a point is inside a closed curve,then the winding number is 1,this is the geometrical intuition.

The definition of winding number of closed curve gamma with respect to a is n(\gamma ,a) = \frac{1}{{2\pi i}}\int\limits_\gamma {\frac{{dz}}{{z - a}}}.

The textbook of Lars Ahlfors said we can write \int\limits_\gamma {\frac{{dz}}{{z - a}}} = \int\limits_\gamma {d\log (z - a) = \int\limits_\gamma {d\log |(z - a)|} } + i\int\limits_\gamma {d\arg (z - a)},when z describes a closed curve,log|z-a| returns to its initial value and arg(z-a) increase or decreases by a mutiple of 2pi.This would seem to imply the lemma,but more careful thought shows that the reasoning is of no value unless we define arg(z-a) in a unique way.

I don't understand this scentence,if arg(z-a) is not define in a unique way,and how does it be defined in a not unique way,the number is not multiple of 2pi?
 
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kakarotyjn said:
I don't understand this scentence,if arg(z-a) is not define in a unique way,and how does it be defined in a not unique way,the number is not multiple of 2pi?

Hi kakarotyjn!:smile:

We don't need arg(z-a) to be uniquely defined (which, as you say, it isn't),

we only need d(arg(z-a)) to be uniquely defined (which it is :wink:).
 
Hi tiny-tim!Thanks for your reply!

Then how can we make d(arg(z-a)) uniquely defined?I'm really confused of this.
Can we define it in the complement of z>0?
 
Hi kakarotyjn! :smile:

(just got up :zzz: …)
kakarotyjn said:
Then how can we make d(arg(z-a)) uniquely defined?I'm really confused of this.
Can we define it in the complement of z>0?

(i don't understand what you mean by "complement of z>0" :confused:)

arg has an ambiguity of ±2πn, but d(arg) doesn't, because we can assume that the same value of n is used …

so long as γ does not go through the point a, a small change in z makes a small change in arg(z-a) … ie, very nearly 0, not very nearly ±2πn. :wink:
 
HiHi,tiny-tim:-p(Just got up:smile:)


the complement of z>0 means the complement of positive real axis.

and when they make some functions single value,for example log(z) ,the choose complement of negative real axis as the principle value brance,I'm not clear of that:confused:

Well,then why Lar Ahlfors said :This would seem to imply the lemma,but more careful thought shows that the reasoning is of no value unless we define arg(z-a) in a unique way.

Or why can't we think about the definition of winding number and just prove the formula of winding number is the winding number?Just as what he said :z describes a closed curve,log|z-a| returns to its initial value and arg(z-a) increase or decreases by a mutiple of 2pi.

Sorry for my poor English,and thanks for your help!:smile:
 
Hi kakarotyjn! Good afternoon from London! :smile:

I think the answer is that, although arg(z-a) is multi-valued, this is a curve, and so is a function z(t) for some parameter t, and we can define arg(z(t)-a) to be single-valued (which is most easily done by simply requiring arg(z(t)-a) to be a continuous function of t). :smile:

(but using the complement of the positive real axis, or of any other line, won't work, because any closed curve will intersect that line … but it doesn't matter, because our single-value requirement is not for all z, or indeed for any open set, but only for the closed image z(R) :wink:)
 
Yar!

That is to say,if we define arg(z-a) in a unique way,then the discussion is consistent.

Really thank you for your patience:smile:

Well,I have to go bed.

Good night from Weihai,haha!
 

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