How to mathematically describe this weird set of points?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around mathematically describing a specific set of points defined by certain conditions involving variables x and y. Participants are exploring the relationships and constraints that can be applied to these variables.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to identify additional conditions beyond ##|x|\le |y|## to refine the set of points. Some are investigating potential patterns among the points, while others are considering the implications of rational numbers and their relationships.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing exploration of different mathematical expressions and conditions that could describe the set. Some participants have found writing equations for lines helpful, and there are various interpretations being discussed without a clear consensus on a final answer.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of the problem, questioning the adequacy of the initial condition and considering the implications of divisibility and rationality in their reasoning.

Lotto
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Homework Statement
I have this set of points defined for ##x , y\in \mathbb Z##. What condtitions do we need to describe it?
Relevant Equations
##|x| \le |y|##
It is clear that one part of the solution is ##|x|\le |y|##, but that is not enough. We need another condition to get rid of some points. How to find it?

I tried to write down some x-values and their y-value and tried to find a pattern, but I didn't see it. Any help?
 

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It looks like they are very regular. Are they multiples of some number? If so, do you know how to describe that set?
 
Try writing equations for the lines (include the bounds).
 
Last edited:
You can eliminate a variable by division ##q:=x/y## and write the set as ##\{q\in \mathbb{Q}\,|\,|q|\leq 1\}.## There is no pattern between numerator and denominator except ##|x|\leq |y|.## How else would you describe all rational numbers as less or equal to one? There are really, really many of them.
 
I got it! Writing down equations of some lines was very helpful...
 
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Lotto said:
I got it! Writing down equations of some lines was very helpful...
What was your answer? I had to piece logic together:
Let ##4\mathbb{Z} = \{4i : i \in \mathbb{Z}\}##. ##A=\{(x,y)\in \mathbb{Z}\times\mathbb{Z} : (|x|=|y| )\vee (( |x|\lt |y|) \wedge ((x\in 4\mathbb{Z}) \vee (y\in 4\mathbb{Z})))\}##
I think ##A## works as the answer but I would not bet the farm on it.
 
FactChecker said:
What was your answer? I had to piece logic together:
Let ##4\mathbb{Z} = \{4i : i \in \mathbb{Z}\}##. ##A=\{(x,y)\in \mathbb{Z}\times\mathbb{Z} : (|x|=|y| )\vee (( |x|\lt |y|) \wedge ((x\in 4\mathbb{Z}) \vee (y\in 4\mathbb{Z})))\}##
I think ##A## works as the answer but I would not bet the farm on it.
I have it similar, but your solution is more elegant. My is ##(|x| \le |y|) \land ((|x|=|y|) \lor (x \equiv 0 \mod 4) \lor (y \equiv 0 \mod 4))##.
 
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Lotto said:
I have it similar, but your solution is more elegant. My is ##(|x| \le |y|) \land ((|x|=|y|) \lor (x \equiv 0 \mod 4) \lor (y \equiv 0 \mod 4))##.
I like yours better.
 

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