How to mathematically describe this weird set of points?

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on mathematically describing a specific set of points defined by the condition |x| ≤ |y|. Participants explore additional constraints to refine this description, particularly examining whether the points are multiples of certain numbers. A key insight is the formulation of the set as {q ∈ ℚ | |q| ≤ 1}, which captures all rational numbers within the specified bounds. The conversation highlights the importance of writing equations for lines to clarify the relationships between x and y values.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of absolute value notation and its implications in inequalities.
  • Familiarity with rational numbers and their properties.
  • Basic knowledge of modular arithmetic, specifically congruences.
  • Experience with mathematical reasoning and logic to formulate conditions.
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the properties of rational numbers and their representation in mathematical sets.
  • Learn about modular arithmetic and its applications in number theory.
  • Explore the concept of inequalities in mathematical analysis.
  • Study the use of equations to describe geometric relationships in coordinate systems.
USEFUL FOR

Mathematicians, students studying number theory, and anyone interested in the geometric representation of sets defined by inequalities.

Lotto
Messages
253
Reaction score
16
Homework Statement
I have this set of points defined for ##x , y\in \mathbb Z##. What condtitions do we need to describe it?
Relevant Equations
##|x| \le |y|##
It is clear that one part of the solution is ##|x|\le |y|##, but that is not enough. We need another condition to get rid of some points. How to find it?

I tried to write down some x-values and their y-value and tried to find a pattern, but I didn't see it. Any help?
 

Attachments

  • picture.png
    picture.png
    20.5 KB · Views: 66
Physics news on Phys.org
It looks like they are very regular. Are they multiples of some number? If so, do you know how to describe that set?
 
Try writing equations for the lines (include the bounds).
 
Last edited:
You can eliminate a variable by division ##q:=x/y## and write the set as ##\{q\in \mathbb{Q}\,|\,|q|\leq 1\}.## There is no pattern between numerator and denominator except ##|x|\leq |y|.## How else would you describe all rational numbers as less or equal to one? There are really, really many of them.
 
I got it! Writing down equations of some lines was very helpful...
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Frabjous
Lotto said:
I got it! Writing down equations of some lines was very helpful...
What was your answer? I had to piece logic together:
Let ##4\mathbb{Z} = \{4i : i \in \mathbb{Z}\}##. ##A=\{(x,y)\in \mathbb{Z}\times\mathbb{Z} : (|x|=|y| )\vee (( |x|\lt |y|) \wedge ((x\in 4\mathbb{Z}) \vee (y\in 4\mathbb{Z})))\}##
I think ##A## works as the answer but I would not bet the farm on it.
 
FactChecker said:
What was your answer? I had to piece logic together:
Let ##4\mathbb{Z} = \{4i : i \in \mathbb{Z}\}##. ##A=\{(x,y)\in \mathbb{Z}\times\mathbb{Z} : (|x|=|y| )\vee (( |x|\lt |y|) \wedge ((x\in 4\mathbb{Z}) \vee (y\in 4\mathbb{Z})))\}##
I think ##A## works as the answer but I would not bet the farm on it.
I have it similar, but your solution is more elegant. My is ##(|x| \le |y|) \land ((|x|=|y|) \lor (x \equiv 0 \mod 4) \lor (y \equiv 0 \mod 4))##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker
Lotto said:
I have it similar, but your solution is more elegant. My is ##(|x| \le |y|) \land ((|x|=|y|) \lor (x \equiv 0 \mod 4) \lor (y \equiv 0 \mod 4))##.
I like yours better.
 

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K