How to Write a Summation as a Riemann-Stieljes Integral

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the conversion of a summation into a Riemann-Stieltjes integral, specifically focusing on the limit of a summation as n approaches infinity. The original poster presents a function and seeks clarification on applying Riemann sums to a specific form of summation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the method of recognizing a limit of a summation as a Riemann sum. Questions arise about the application of Riemann sums when the function is expressed in terms of r rather than r/n. Some participants suggest exploring algebraic techniques and partial fractions, while others express uncertainty about the integration process.

Discussion Status

The conversation is ongoing, with participants sharing insights and suggestions. Some guidance has been offered regarding algebraic techniques and the potential use of partial fractions, but there remains a lack of consensus on the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that convergence and divergence are not part of the syllabus, which may limit the depth of the discussion. There is also mention of different forms of summation and integration that may not align with the original poster's textbook examples.

f(x)
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I have been trying to solve Summation as Limit to Infinity type of questions but there are hardly a few examples I could find in my book
I know the general method for [tex]\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty } \frac{1}{n}\Sigma_{r=A(x)}^{B(x)}f\frac{r}{n}[/tex] where r/n is replaced by x and 1/n by dx, the limits adjusted and integrated.
However, i am unable to understand how to apply this method if the function is f(r) and not of f(r/n)
Eg. [tex]t_r=\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}, \Sigma_{r=1}^{n} t_r = ?[/tex]
Could someone please explain this method or point me to some resources regarding this.
Thanks

PS: Convergence/Divergence isn't a part of my syllabus, yet.
 
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HOld on a minute to see whether i am getting u right.

You are saying basically that how would one find the following limit, by recognizing it as a rimann sum right?

[tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} \sum_{r=1}^n\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]

Is this correct?
 
sutupidmath said:
HOld on a minute to see whether i am getting u right.

You are saying basically that how would one find the following limit, by recognizing it as a rimann sum right?

[tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} \sum_{r=1}^n\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]

Is this correct?
yes the expression is correct, sorry I couldn't do proper LaTEX.
But i am unfamiliar with Riemann Sums, if that's means definite integral, then yes. As I said, I only know the method for f(r/n) , not f(r).
Thanks
 
Hi f(x)! :smile:
f(x) said:
[tex]\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty } \frac{1}{n}\Sigma_{r=A(x)}^{B(x)}f\frac{r}{n}[/tex] where r/n is replaced by x and 1/n by dx, the limits adjusted and integrated.

Surely it's ((B-A)/n)∑r=1n f(A + r(B-A)/n)? :confused:
 
[tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} \sum_{r=1}^n\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]
is just, by definition,
[tex]\sum_{r=1}^\infty\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]

It can't be written as an integral (unless you use the Riemann-Stieljes integral).
 
HallsofIvy said:
[tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} \sum_{r=1}^n\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]
is just, by definition,
[tex]\sum_{r=1}^\infty\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]

It can't be written as an integral (unless you use the Riemann-Stieljes integral).
Hello Sir
This is a problem from limits exercises in my textbook. Since Integral isn't possible, am I just supposed to find the sum using algebraic summation techniques and then limit as n-> infinity ?
Could you please give a hint how to find the sum ?
Thanks

tiny-tim said:
Hi f(x)! :smile:


Surely it's ((B-A)/n)∑r=1n f(A + r(B-A)/n)? :confused:
Hello Sir
The standard form I have in my text is the one I have put in my first post, but the one you have posted seems related (i think yours is the one with integral as sum of parts)
 
f(x) said:
Hello Sir
This is a problem from limits exercises in my textbook. Since Integral isn't possible, am I just supposed to find the sum using algebraic summation techniques and then limit as n-> infinity ?
Could you please give a hint how to find the sum ?
Thanks
[tex]\sum_{r=1}^\infty\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]

Hi f(x)! :smile:

You could try partial fractions, and then integrating …

though after that, I get stuck :redface:

(and don't call us "Sir"!)
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi f(x)! :smile:

You could try partial fractions, and then integrating …

though after that, I get stuck :redface:

(and don't call us "Sir"!)


Now why are YOU getting stuck, tiny-tim? That's a great suggestion. Now just complete the squares. One term contains (r+1/2)^2, the other (r-1/2)^2. It telescopes. Doesn't it?
 
Dick said:
Now why are YOU getting stuck, tiny-tim? That's a great suggestion. Now just complete the squares. One term contains (r+1/2)^2, the other (r-1/2)^2. It telescopes. Doesn't it?

ah! … got it! :biggrin:

i didn't see that √[(3 + √5)/2] = (1 + √5)/2 :redface:

EDIT: ooh, i didn't need to integrate either …

as soon as you get the right 1/quadratic - 1/quadratic,

you use n2 ± n = n(n ± 1),

and the "telescoping" works immediately. :biggrin:
 
Last edited:
  • #10
HallsofIvy said:
[tex]\lim_{n\rightarrow \infty} \sum_{r=1}^n\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]
is just, by definition,
[tex]\sum_{r=1}^\infty\frac{r}{1-3r^2+r^4}[/tex]

It can't be written as an integral (unless you use the Riemann-Stieljes integral).


hi, could you please explain a little about how to write it as an Riemann-Stieljes integral? I learned something about Riemann-Stieljes integral in principle of mathematics but havn't met any concrete examples. Thanks
 

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