How would I prove that ln (lim (u)) = lim (ln (u))

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical relationship between the limit of a natural logarithm and the natural logarithm of a limit, specifically exploring the expression lim (x→∞) [ln u] = ln (lim (x→∞) u) for a continuous function u. Participants seek to understand the proof of this relationship and the conditions under which it holds.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that the statement lim (x→∞) [ln u] = ln (lim (x→∞) u) holds under the assumption that lim (x→∞) u(x) exists and is continuous.
  • Another participant provides a sequence-based argument to show that if L = lim (x→∞) u(x), then ln(L) can be expressed as lim (n→∞) ln(u_n) for a sequence u_n converging to L.
  • Several participants express confusion regarding the interchange of the limit and the logarithm, questioning the validity of the step ln(lim n→∞ u_n) = lim n→∞ (ln(u_n)).
  • One participant emphasizes the need for the positivity of L, noting that without this assumption, the equation does not hold.
  • Another participant discusses the continuity of the natural logarithm function and provides a proof based on the integral definition of ln, suggesting that continuity is a key aspect of the argument.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for certain conditions, such as the existence and positivity of the limit, but there is no consensus on the proof or the validity of the steps involved in the argument. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the interchange of limit and logarithm.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption that u is continuous and that lim (x→∞) u(x) exists and is positive. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in proving the continuity of the logarithm or the interchange of limits and logarithms.

MadViolinist
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We were working with L'hospital's rule and my teacher said that the teacher before him told him that this was true:

lim (x→∞) [ln u] = ln ( lim (x→∞) u), where u is a continuous function.

My teacher has never found a proof for this, although it works every time. Does anyone know how to prove this? Thanks!
 
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I guess you are implicitly assuming that ##\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty}u(x)## exists, because otherwise the statement doesn't make any sense. So if we put ##L = \lim_{x \rightarrow \infty}u(x)## and ##x_n## is any sequence such that ##x_n \rightarrow \infty## as ##n \rightarrow \infty##, we have a corresponding sequence ##u_n = u(x_n)## such that ##u_n \rightarrow L## as ##n \rightarrow \infty##. We may now write
$$\ln(L) = \ln(\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty}u(x)) = \ln(\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} u_n) = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \ln(u_n) = \lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \ln(u(x_n))$$
The third equality holds because ##\ln## is continuous at ##L##. Thus we have established that
$$\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} \ln(u(x_n)) = \ln(L)$$
This is true for any sequence ##x_n \rightarrow \infty##, so we may conclude that
$$\lim_{x \rightarrow \infty} \ln(u(x)) = \ln(L)$$.
 
Thanks for the answer!

However, I do not get the step where ln(limn→∞ un)=limn→∞ ( ln(un)). How did you change the order of the natural log and the limit?
 
MadViolinist said:
Thanks for the answer!

However, I do not get the step where ln(limn→∞ un)=limn→∞ ( ln(un)). How did you change the order of the natural log and the limit?
If ##f## is any function that is continuous at ##L##, and ##\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} u_n = L##, then ##\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} f(u_n) = f(\lim_{n \rightarrow \infty} u_n) = f(L)##. You can prove this quite easily using the epsilon-delta definition of continuity.

Assuming that theorem, all you need is the fact that ##\ln## is continuous at ##L##, where ##L## is any real positive number. (By the way, positivity of ##L## is another assumption that needs to be added to the problem statement, otherwise the equation makes no sense.)

How to prove that ##\ln## is continuous depends on how you defined ##\ln##. One standard definition is
$$\ln(x) = \int_{1}^{x} \frac{1}{t} dt$$
If we use that definition, then
$$\begin{align}
|\ln(x+h) - \ln(x)| &= \left|\int_{1}^{x+h} \frac{1}{t} dt - \int_{1}^{x} \frac{1}{t}\right|\\
&= \left|\int_{x}^{x+h}\frac{1}{t} dt\right|\\
\end{align}$$
If ##h > 0## then we have the bound
$$\left|\int_{x}^{x+h}\frac{1}{t} dt\right| \leq \left|\int_{x}^{x+h}\frac{1}{x} dt\right| = \left| \frac{h}{x} \right|$$
which we can make as small as we like as ##h \rightarrow 0##. A similar argument holds for ##h < 0##.
 
Thanks again!
 

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