Hypothetical Hollow Steel Sphere: collapse from outside pressure

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothetical scenario of a hollow steel sphere subjected to external atmospheric pressure and the conditions under which it would collapse. Participants explore the theoretical and mathematical aspects of buckling failure, particularly focusing on the application of formulas related to pressure and material properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the amount of gas that needs to be removed from the inside of the sphere to cause collapse, suggesting the use of bulk modulus for calculations.
  • Another participant references a formula for buckling pressure but expresses skepticism about its derivation and assumptions, indicating that the problem is complex.
  • A different participant asks about the derivation of the mentioned formula and extends the inquiry to other shapes like cylinders or cubes.
  • One participant provides historical context for the formula, noting it is the Zoelly-Van Der Neut formula for buckling of spherical shells, and mentions that actual spheres may fail at lower loads due to defects.
  • Further, they suggest that research can yield more accurate formulas and provide links to additional resources, including a different formula that aligns better with experimental results.
  • They also note that design choices must be considered when applying these formulas to a real sphere, as deviations from an ideal shape can affect outcomes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of confidence in the formulas discussed, with some skepticism about their derivations and applicability. There is no consensus on the correct approach or formula to use for determining the collapse pressure of the sphere.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the problem, including the need for assumptions regarding material properties and the idealization of the sphere's shape. There are references to both linear and nonlinear methods, indicating that the mathematical treatment may vary significantly based on the chosen approach.

thedan16
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Hello physics forums,

Say you had a hollow steel sphere of thickness 1 mm and diameter of 1 meter (from outside to outside)?

Inside the sphere is gas at 1 atm pressure. Outside is 1 atm of pressure. How much gas would I have to remove from the inside until the sphere collapsed from outside atmospheric pressure?

I'd have to use bulk modulus correct?
 
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This http://www.engr.uconn.edu/~cassenti/AnsysTutorial/Modules_APDL/Module%205%20Buckling%20Sphere.pdf

gives a formula $$P = \frac{2Et^2}{r^2\sqrt{3(1-\mu^2)}}$$

But since it doesn't give any information about to how it was derived and what assumptions were made, I have no reason to believe it's correct. This is one of those problems which is very easy to describe, but very hard to solve.

The only thing one can say confidently is that it will collapse by buckling, not by compressive failure of the material.
 
Yes, I'm curious to how this formula was derived! What about a cylinder or a cube?
 
That is the the Zoelly-Van Der Neut formula for buckling of spherical shells and goes as far back as 1915. It is the theoretical limit to the buckling failure of a sphere, whereas from experimental data most actual spheres will fail with loads 1/3 to 1/4 of that value, due to say manufacturing and assembly defects giving a sphere different from that of a perfectly smooth one.

If your library has the book by Timoshenko, Theory of Elastic Stability, you will find a derivation using linear methods.
Nonlinear methods of solution for this problem are difficult to solve.

Research pays off and here are some pdf's of interest:
http://traktoria.org/files/pressure_hull/spherical/buckling_of_spherical_shells.pdf
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/610809.pdf

The first link gives a different formula that is said to agree more with experimental results,
Pcr = 0.37E/ m^2

where m is the radius/thickness ratio.

The first formula in the same format becomes Pcr = 1.21 E / m^2, using a Poission ration of 0.3.

I suppose for your sphere, you will have to make some design choices on the differences fom an ideal shere
 
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