I don't understand this circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the behavior of a specific circuit involving an NPN transistor and an LED. Participants explore the circuit's operation, particularly why the LED turns off after a few seconds despite what seems to be a direct current path through it. The conversation includes technical explanations of transistor behavior and circuit dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the circuit's operation as per the book, noting that the LED turns on for a few seconds and then turns off, questioning why this occurs given a direct path for current through the LED.
  • Another participant suggests that the original poster may not have fully grasped previous projects, emphasizing that when a transistor is "on," it conducts current, resulting in a low voltage across the emitter-collector junction.
  • A participant reiterates their understanding of transistors but expresses confusion about the LED's behavior, highlighting the existence of a current path that bypasses the transistors.
  • One participant explains that the transistor stages function as NOT gates, indicating that the voltage at the collector side changes based on the base voltage, suggesting a logical relationship between the two transistor stages.
  • Another participant questions the voltage across the emitter-collector of the second transistor when it is "on" and discusses the implications for the LED's operation, proposing that when the second transistor is "on," it shorts the LED, while when it is "off," the LED is part of the circuit.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the circuit's operation, with some confusion about the role of the transistors and the LED. There is no consensus on the explanation for the LED turning off after a few seconds, and multiple viewpoints are presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the behavior of transistors and the specific circuit design, but there are unresolved questions regarding the voltage levels and the exact conditions under which the LED operates.

gsingh2011
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I have a kit for designing circuits and this was one of the projects in the book:
thumb.png

That was the best scan I could make... On the right side, right next to the NPN transistor there is an LED and to the right of that there is a 6V power source, positive side is up, negative is down. If there's anything else unclear about the picture, ask me.

So the circuit does exactly what the book says it would: the light turns on for a few seconds and then turns off. But looking at the connections made, the current has a direct path through the LED without even going through the transistors, so it seems like it should stay on at all times. I think the basic idea of the rest of it is that when the capacitor is charged it provides the base current necessary to allow the collector-emitter current to flow. Whether it flows or doesn't flow, I still see one direct path for the current to take through the LED. Why does it still turn off after a few seconds?
 
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The text states "You should have no difficulty in figuring out how this circuit works". Which leads me to think you may not have learned from the previous projects or skipped them completely. Remember, when a transistor is in the "on" state it will conduct current and so the voltage across the emitter collector will be low.
 
TurtleMeister said:
The text states "You should have no difficulty in figuring out how this circuit works". Which leads me to think you may not have learned from the previous projects or skipped them completely. Remember, when a transistor is in the "on" state it will conduct current and so the voltage across the emitter collector will be low.

I've done all of the previous projects. Transistors are the only things that confuse me and I understand them on basic level now, which should be enough to understand this circuit. But I still see a path through the LED that doesn't go through the transistors and shouldn't be affected by any state they are in.
 
The transistor stages are set up in such a way that they act as NOT gates. If voltage in the base of one transistor is low then the voltage on the collector side will go up, and if base is high, then the collector voltage will go down. There are two such stages in the schematic, so you have a NOT and a NOT that cancel each other.
 
But what is the voltage across the emitter collector (of Q2) when it is "on", and what voltage is needed to turn the led on?
http://www.ledsmagazine.com/features/4/8/1/MarlFig1

Maybe a simpler way for you to think of this is that when Q2 is "on" it shorts out the led (current flows through R3 and Q2). When Q2 is "off" it is like an open circuit (current flows through R3 and the led).
 
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