I finding the EV of the possible outcomes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expected value (EV) and the Kelly criterion in the context of a Bitcoin gambling game designed by the original poster and developers. Participants explore the mechanics of the game, including betting strategies, payout structures, and the implications of the Kelly criterion on game design.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • The original poster describes a gambling game involving betting on number ranges and prime numbers, with specific payout percentages for different outcomes.
  • Some participants question the game's design, suggesting that if the Kelly criterion allows players to bet any amount, it could indicate a flaw in the game's structure.
  • There are inquiries about how the random number range is generated and whether betting strategies based on the first N numbers might be more efficient.
  • Participants ask for clarification on the payout mechanics when betting on even numbers versus prime numbers, particularly in specific scenarios.
  • One participant suggests simulating games to determine expectation values rather than relying solely on theoretical calculations.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the conditions under which players win or lose based on their bets and the generated number range.
  • There is a challenge regarding the payout structure when betting on specific numbers and ranges, with participants seeking to understand the implications of their choices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of the Kelly criterion for the game's design, and there is no consensus on the optimal betting strategies or the mechanics of payouts. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to determining expected values and the overall fairness of the game.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding unspecified algorithms for generating random ranges and the assumptions underlying the payout structures. Some participants express confusion over the mechanics, indicating a need for further clarification.

Who May Find This Useful

Game developers, mathematicians interested in probability and game theory, and individuals exploring gambling mechanics and expected value calculations may find this discussion relevant.

Alanay
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I'm making a Bitcoin gambling game with some developers. But I need help from you crazy good mathematicians out there! I need to know the "kelly criteron" or "EV" of the possible outcomes in the game.

How the game works:

The game is basically a grid of 1-100 numbers. Every 10 seconds a number range will be generated. So you choose to bet on 40-60 so that the generated range won't crash into your bet range. You will get a 250% payout. 200% for the 20 numbers. 50% for the 5 prime numbers in there. So prime numbers are your friend!

You can also click once on any number. If you click on a prime number you are betting the generated range will not crash into at least 1 prime number, if you're correct you will get a 112.5% payout. If you click on only one even or odd number you're betting there will be more of that number (even or odd) in the total range that is not crashed into. So If I click on an even number and the generated range is 21-31 I will win, the payout would be 150%. Because between 21 and 31 there are more even numbers.
 
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If the Kelly criterion tells players to bet any money, your game is broken. The bank always has to win.

You can freely choose the range to bet on?
How does the generated number range get determined? For most reasonable systems, I guess betting on the first N numbers will be the most efficient bet.

What is payout if you bet on an even number and the generated range is 20-29?
If you pick a prime, are odd numbers also included (or even numbers for 2)?

Why don't you just simulate enough games to determine the expectation values?
 
mfb said:
If the Kelly criterion tells players to bet any money, your game is broken. The bank always has to win.

You can freely choose the range to bet on?
How does the generated number range get determined? For most reasonable systems, I guess betting on the first N numbers will be the most efficient bet.

What is payout if you bet on an even number and the generated range is 20-29?
If you pick a prime, are odd numbers also included (or even numbers for 2)?

Why don't you just simulate enough games to determine the expectation values?
They freely bet what range or even/odd/a prime they will to choose during a 10 second count down until the next random range is chosen. If the next random range is 10-90 and I chose a range within that range I win but if I chose something like 5-15 then I crashed into 5 tiles and I lose.

If they bet an even number and it the random range is 20-29 they lose, they only win if it's mostly evens. So they have a 1 in 3 chance.

If you pick a prime and you chose an even prime then odd primes are still included yes. It just has to be any prime number.

We will be working on prototypes soon but I need to make sure the team all know exactly how it works before we start. Some of them got a little confused with small things.
 
Last edited:
Alanay said:
If they bet an even number and it the random range is 20-29 they lose, they only win if it's mostly evens. So they have a 1 in 3 chance.
1 out of 4, approximately (a bit less), for some reasonable assumptions about your still unspecified algorithm to generate the random range.
Alanay said:
If you pick a prime and you chose an even prime then odd primes are still included yes. It just has to be any prime number.
That was not my question.
I pick 7, the random range is 8-14. Do I win the "mostly odd" payout?
I pick 7, the random range is 14-16. Do I win the "mostly odd" and the "prime number" payout?
 
No if you choose a prime number you're only betting the range will include a prime number. If you want to be an even/odd then bet on one that isn't a prime number.
 

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