News If East Germany Could Secure Their Border So Can America

[brainstorm]

Note, "if the conditions/limits of the visa are violated". You can continuously re-apply for a visa providing you have a legitimate reason to do so. If so, it won't be declined.
If you violate the conditions of the visa, that is your fault not the countries. The country accepted you by giving the visa and you have effectively betrayed their trust in you. You don't deserve to be in that country. The conditions are there to protect the country not the person entering it.

I don't know why you feel the need to get into the details of the authoritarian logic of it all. All I was pointing out is that different national authorities cooperate to effectively segregate individuals into "regions of belonging." You don't seem to be able to rise above the level of naturalizing regional belongingness as if it was assigned genetically or by God.

If you look at nationalism anthropologically as a form of human culture, you should notice that it is a form of territorialism and that it is utilized to facilitate relative segregation of people into relatively separate regions - at least this is the ideal it strives for. In principle, I am for open, non-territorial regionalism where anyone can live and work anywhere without being treated as a "foreigner" but there is currently too much nationalist territorialism for people to simply accept anyone else's presence as natural regardless of citizenship and ethnic identity. Presumably this will dissipate in the coming century or two the way racial/ethnic segregation has been dissipating for the last century or so.

You can apply for holiday visa's to the UK continuously. Stay here as long as like (visa's are 6 months at a time so you'd have to re-apply). As long as you can prove you can pay your way, without working illegally and without being a burden to the country they won't stop you.

I'm actually surprised to hear you don't have to leave and come back to get another 6 month visa and that there is no limit to continuous visa requests. What is actually the point of making people get a visa at all in that case? Can people legally apply to any job without citizenship in UK law?

The only thing stopping you traveling or entering a country is if you are suspicious (can't prove why you are traveling or can't support yourself etc) or if you have violated your travel conditions (come to the country on a tourist visa and then worked etc).

Just because you aren't British, doesn't stop you living here. It's more difficult, but that is only because you need to prove you aren't going to be a burden / problem for the country.

So you have to be independently wealthy? Is there no official or unofficial discrimination against job-applicants identified as "foreign?"

 

[JaredJames]

I'm actually surprised to hear you don't have to leave and come back to get another 6 month visa and that there is no limit to continuous visa requests. What is actually the point of making people get a visa at all in that case? Can people legally apply to any job without citizenship in UK law?

Well there are clauses, you can only remain in the UK for 6 months at a time (even with visas up to 10 years long). But what I'm trying to say is that there is nothing stopping you remaining here by going away and coming back. However you have to realize that coming here for six months, and then trying to get straight back in will flag you up to immigration.

So you have to be independently wealthy? Is there no official or unofficial discrimination against job-applicants identified as "foreign?"

Working visas are different to tourist ones. There are different classes for working visas and they present different issues to tourist ones - they are harder to get.

Like I said before, the EU has removed the need for a work visa within other EU states. It's the countries outside of the EU (particularly the middle eastern block) that prove to be the biggest problem when it comes to illegal immigration and working illegally. The visas are there to ensure people wanting to work here do so with the governments knowledge and contribute to the country they are inhabiting.

 

[brainstorm]

Well there are clauses, you can only remain in the UK for 6 months at a time (even with visas up to 10 years long). But what I'm trying to say is that there is nothing stopping you remaining here by going away and coming back. However you have to realize that coming here for six months, and then trying to get straight back in will flag you up to immigration.

Working visas are different to tourist ones. There are different classes for working visas and they present different issues to tourist ones - they are harder to get.

Like I said before, the EU has removed the need for a work visa within other EU states. It's the countries outside of the EU (particularly the middle eastern block) that prove to be the biggest problem when it comes to illegal immigration and working illegally. The visas are there to ensure people wanting to work here do so with the governments knowledge and contribute to the country they are inhabiting.

Right, this was my point. So the point is to segregate people into eastern and western Europe? Yes, temporary stays are permitted but only under the conditions that people aren't settling permanently. They want people not to permanently migrate to certain regions. It is a system of segregation by the ideology of regional-belonging.

 

[JaredJames]

Right, this was my point. So the point is to segregate people into eastern and western Europe? Yes, temporary stays are permitted but only under the conditions that people aren't settling permanently. They want people not to permanently migrate to certain regions. It is a system of segregation by the ideology of regional-belonging.

Have you not heard of emigration? People move to other countries to live and it isn't that difficult - providing you do it legally.

There's really not much more to it than working here for a few years whilst holding a work visa and then proving you have a good understanding of British life and culture.

Also, if you marry someone in the UK you pretty much guarantee acceptance (it's not certain, but it's a lot more difficult to get you out once married).

You clearly don't understand the process, here is the general outline direct from the Border Agency:

After you have lived legally in the UK for a certain length of time (usually between two and five years), you may be able to apply for permission to settle here. This is known as 'indefinite leave to remain'..

Your right to apply for settlement will depend on your current immigration category. You should read the section for your category (in Working in the UK, Partners and family members or Asylum) to find out whether and when you can apply for settlement.

Most applicants will need to show that they have a knowledge of language and life in the UK.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/settlement/

I think it's also worth noting that in the US, any child born in the country is automatically a US citizen. There are a number of pregnant women from poorer countries who will travel to the US during late stages of pregnancy and have the child there. That way they gain a way to remain in the country. This is not true for the UK however.

Your views are extremely idealised. As nice a concept as yours is, you seem blissfully unaware of the reasons for countries having borders and the need for immigration control.

 

[brainstorm]

Your views are extremely idealised. As nice a concept as yours is, you seem blissfully unaware of the reasons for countries having borders and the need for immigration control.

Eating is a need. Warmth is a need. Is nationalism a need? Regardless, I'm not talking about whether migration control benefits some people. I am just saying that relative global segregation is what is achieved by nationalist migration control. In other words, people aren't allowed to live and work wherever they want. Why not? What would happen if they did?

 

[Office_Shredder]

I think it's also worth noting that in the US, any child born in the country is automatically a US citizen. There are a number of pregnant women from poorer countries who will travel to the US during late stages of pregnancy and have the child there. That way they gain a way to remain in the country. This is not true for the UK however.

That's not really how it works

http://asu.news21.com/2010/children-of-deported-parents/

 

[JaredJames]

That's not really how it works

http://asu.news21.com/2010/children-of-deported-parents/

You might want to read that article. A tad bias I must say.

If I've understood it correctly, the only reason that woman was deported is because of the father and her inability to defend herself - helped by the fact he was a citizen.

Also, there is a huge section which says they are trying to get the amendment through, which was dismissed in 2009, that would mean a child basically needs one US citizen parent to gain citizenship in the US. If not, they would be refused citizenship and returned to the parents country of origin (how it works in the UK).

That article only speaks about deported parents, it doesn't give figures (deported / allowed to remain). I'd be interested to see those before I make a judgement here.
I'm not saying I don't believe you regarding how it works, but given the bill they are trying to get through regarding the 14th amendments I'd say it's obviously an issue with people having children in the US and trying to use them to remain - even if it fails and they end up getting deported. There appears to be some bias in the article.

One thing I am curious about though, how do those kids end up homeless? They either remain in the US or go home with parents. If you know you have no one to look after your child (or fostering isn't going to happen), why would you leave them there and let them get into the situation of being homeless? I'd say that's neglect on the parents part.