If slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would be a vegetarian.

[Moonbear]

Seeing a pet killed makes me sad. Seeing my dinner killed makes me hungry.

Yep. Bow season starts soon, and the deer are looking might tasty about now.

 

[z0rn dawg]

I have molars and incisors and canines for a reason. Humans are not herbivores.. If we were we'd have teeth entirely like a cow or a horse.

I actually read or heard (I forget which) that human teeth cannot handle raw vegetables, fruits, etc. over an entire life because our teeth are too soft. They'd get worn down. It kind of makes me wonder about what PETA says about vegetarianism and how it's natural, but that's a different story.

I will eat meat. It's natural. It tastes good.

 

[jobyts]

Why? If it's killing for food and not just some form of entertainment, why would you have any more emotion about one than the other? It's just something you do because you have to do it. I don't know where society has come up with this silly idea that we are supposed to feel guilty about our food source. It's rather counter-productive to survival if we get emotionally attached to our dinner. It may be anthropomorphic, but I really doubt that lions or coyotes get all worked up inside about having to kill their own dinner either.

Being anthropomorphic is a human characteristic, isn't it?, probably a characteristic evolved with our smarter brain. In our living room, do we keep a picture of a rabbit eating grass, or a leopard eating a deer? I'm not debating about the philosophical point whether humans should eat meat or not. My point is whether it's for food or not, seeing a mammal or a bird being killed is an unpleasant one.

 

[turbo]

My point is whether it's for food or not, seeing a mammal or a bird being killed is an unpleasant one.

Only for people who have been coddled all their lives, and who think hamburg comes in plastic trays with plastic wrap. Shooting a deer is the anticlimax of the hunt, but I feel much better providing a humane death to a wild creature to provide meat for my family than buying beef from cattle who have been confined and fattened in feed-lots.

I was brought up in a family that expected children to participate in the slaughter of poultry and livestock. We were encouraged to attend the birth of cattle and watch the hatching of chicks, too, and we were expected to lend a hand as they were turned into the food that we would eat. Many people have a disconnect about this kind of thing, and act morally superior when they decide that they won't eat meat. Ever notice that so often these "superior" beings carry leather handbags, wear expensive leather shoes and leather belts?

I remember the first time that I was considered old enough and reliable enough to carry wash-basins of pig's blood from the barn to the kitchen so that my mother, aunts, great-aunts, etc could start making blood sausage. Little kids could be allowed to carry large and small intestines to the kitchen because after all, if you dropped them in the dirt, they would simply be washed off, and were destined to be thoroughly cleaned out and boiled anyway to make sausage casings. Spill a wash-pan of blood in the driveway, and the wrath of the (female) elders would fall heavily on you.

 

[junglebeast]

Only for people who have been coddled all their lives, and who think hamburg comes in plastic trays with plastic wrap. Shooting a deer is the anticlimax of the hunt, but I feel much better providing a humane death to a wild creature to provide meat for my family than buying beef from cattle who have been confined and fattened in feed-lots.

I wasn't coddled. I grew up around animal carcases...they would be hanging from the trees in the lawn sometimes, or thrown into the car seat next to me, or dead cows would be tossed into the back, then chopped into pieces on the front lawn. I saw chickens raised and slaughtered. I was taught to shoot and killed off the pesky squirrels with my 22. My father hunted deer and we ate it.

Anyway, this never stopped me from feeling bad when I killed a squirrel...from the realization that I had just killed some poor animal for no real reason. I didn't eat the squirrel. I could shoot a deer, but I would still feel it is wrong. Why? Because even if I eat it, it wasn't killed for food. It was killed simply for sport. If I had wanted food, I would have just gone to the grocery store. when you hunt and kill a deer, it is only for sport. And hundreds of years ago, that would have seemed perfectly OK to me...but now, the presence of man has encroached so far on the natural habitat...the deer hardly have a place of their own left. We don't need to kill them, and yet we do just for fun.

I don't care so much about killing an animal that was raised on a farm because it never lived a wild life to begin with -- so there isn't much to take away. It's like the difference between putting down a coma patient and shooting a person on the street.

 

[Proton Soup]

the deer have plenty of habitat. hunting them is necessary now, though (where i live at least), because we've killed off the natural predators (wolves and cougars). it's funny, though. i think the media probably does a good job at portraying backwoods yokels as a bunch of trophy-hunting hillbillies, but the truth of the matter is those people are more subsistence hunters. the real people that do it mostly for jollies are a bunch of doctor and lawyer types from the cities that will actually pay $300 for a hunting shirt, ten grand for a club fee, or go to one of those deer farms where they can shoot fenced-in tame deer like fish in a barrel.

and squirrels are vermin to me. they keep eating our pecans. i wish i could step outside with a .22 and plink a few of them. but here in the city limits, it's limited to catch and release. i did a little joy dance when the one that got trapped out in the rain died of exposure before i could release him by the river. that neurotic little freak chewed though half a tree of green pecans just to see if maybe, just maybe, the next one would be ripe.

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

Only for people who have been coddled all their lives, and who think hamburg comes in plastic trays with plastic wrap.

I grew up in the city and have pretty much spent my whole life there. I'm not sure I could kill most things though I am pretty sure I wouldn't have any trouble fishing and cleaning fish. Of course if my neighbour will do the deer hunting and slaughtering I'll do the fishing.

 

[lisab]

I grew up in the city and have pretty much spent my whole life there. I'm not sure I could kill most things though I am pretty sure I wouldn't have any trouble fishing and cleaning fish. Of course if my neighbour will do the deer hunting and slaughtering I'll do the fishing.

...and if you'll do the fishing, I'll do the cleaning. Spent a whole summer doing it in Alaska!

Aaaah...I love the smell of salmon blood in the morning...

 

[Sorry!]

My family comes from New Brunswick. A small town with A LOT of forest around... Whenever I went down there I ate fresh moose/deer even bear all the time. When we went fishing we brought home lunch.

I would definitely feel bad/upset if I saw an animal being tortured to death or in some sort of extended suffering.

I'm not going to lie though, tonight my beef tasted rediculously good in my hamburger helper with fries :D. and I don't really care at all how the meat came to be in my house. If I saw them torturing an animal to death then yeah of course I would be like what the hell are you doing? I don't think that the animals are tortured however, I'm pretty sure that effects the outcome of the meat.

 

[Werg22]

Only for people who have been coddled all their lives, and who think hamburg comes in plastic trays with plastic wrap. Shooting a deer is the anticlimax of the hunt, but I feel much better providing a humane death to a wild creature to provide meat for my family than buying beef from cattle who have been confined and fattened in feed-lots.

I was brought up in a family that expected children to participate in the slaughter of poultry and livestock. We were encouraged to attend the birth of cattle and watch the hatching of chicks, too, and we were expected to lend a hand as they were turned into the food that we would eat. Many people have a disconnect about this kind of thing, and act morally superior when they decide that they won't eat meat. Ever notice that so often these "superior" beings carry leather handbags, wear expensive leather shoes and leather belts?

I remember the first time that I was considered old enough and reliable enough to carry wash-basins of pig's blood from the barn to the kitchen so that my mother, aunts, great-aunts, etc could start making blood sausage. Little kids could be allowed to carry large and small intestines to the kitchen because after all, if you dropped them in the dirt, they would simply be washed off, and were destined to be thoroughly cleaned out and boiled anyway to make sausage casings. Spill a wash-pan of blood in the driveway, and the wrath of the (female) elders would fall heavily on you.

Did you grow up in the 18th century or what?

 

[Monique]

It depends where you come from on how the animals are treated Monique.

And what exactly is your point? I don't get it. My question still stands: Do you know how the animals enter the slaughterhouse?

 

[Monique]

Nope, I'd still eat meat. I have molars and incisors and canines for a reason. Humans are not herbivores.. If we were we'd have teeth entirely like a cow or a horse.

The human body requires the nutrients that meat provides. Why would I deny my body the nutrients it needs? It's been doing humanity pretty good for thousands and thousands of years, and I honestly don't think any more people would be vegetarians because of a glass slaughter house than people would be if they still had to kill their food themselves.

I don't agree, at one point in evolution we relied on meat for our evolutionary advantage. Our society evolved much since then. Today you can get by perfectly fine without ever eating meat even once in your life. I know people who have been vegetarian from birth and there is nothing wrong with them.

 

[turbo]

Did you grow up in the 18th century or what?

1950's. My uncles were still twitching timber out of the woods using horses, and farming and raising livestock using methods that had been around forever.

 

[Kurdt]

And what exactly is your point? I don't get it. My question still stands: Do you know how the animals enter the slaughterhouse?

Yes. Like I said previously I have watched a series of programs that gives slaughter houses glass walls. I was assuming you were referring to the conditions in which some animals are brought in. The level of care shown to the animals depends on which country you're in was my point. Some countries try their hardest to make sure animals used for food are treated as humanely as possible.

 

[lisab]

I don't agree, at one point in evolution we relied on meat for our evolutionary advantage. We've evolved much since then. Today you can get by perfectly fine without ever eating meat even once in your life. I know people who have been vegetarian from birth and there is nothing wrong with them.

True. Barring some medical reason (Ivan's, for example), people who eat meat do so out of choice, regardless of what your teeth look like.

I have to admit, I struggle with this issue.

 

[jobyts]

Does any animal eat carnivorous animals?

 

[lisab]

Does any animal eat carnivorous animals?

Sure, lots of them. Coyotes will eat cats, for example.

 

[jobyts]

Sure, lots of them. Coyotes will eat cats, for example.

cats are omnivorous, right?

 

[negitron]

No, cats are obligate carnivores.

 

[Evo]

I was watching a cooking contest the other day and the chefs had to cook for this kook that was not only vegan, so no meat, fish, eggs, butter, milk, or cheese, but she didn't like anything made with soy or wheat either. Where do people come up with these bizarre, unhealthy diets?

 

[jobyts]

I have to admit, I struggle with this issue.

In the same boat. Anthropomorphism vs. taste. And usually the taste instinct wins.

 

[WiFO215]

Why? If it's killing for food and not just some form of entertainment, why would you have any more emotion about one than the other? It's just something you do because you have to do it. I don't know where society has come up with this silly idea that we are supposed to feel guilty about our food source. It's rather counter-productive to survival if we get emotionally attached to our dinner. It may be anthropomorphic, but I really doubt that lions or coyotes get all worked up inside about having to kill their own dinner either.

That's why you cry when you cut an onion!

 

[turbo]

That's why you cry when you cut an onion!

 

[Mk]

For another, a non-insignificant segment of the population hunts, dresses and butchers their own meat.

Congratulations, you have a point of view most young urban/suburban Americans have difficulty imagining.

Did you grow up in the 18th century or what?

Jeez, that nearly insulted me! Watch out with that thing.

Only for people who have been coddled all their lives, and who think hamburg comes in plastic trays with plastic wrap. Shooting a deer is the anticlimax of the hunt, but I feel much better providing a humane death to a wild creature to provide meat for my family than buying beef from cattle who have been confined and fattened in feed-lots.

Man, you said it well. The current brand of emotional vegetarianisms is only possible due to the level of urbanization we have in some areas. People who have lived in cities for their entire lives and feel like they want to be "close to the environment," or want to live "in a green way" do not have any concept of what being "close to the environment" actually means. They rarely walk off concrete or asphalt and when they leave the city, to go see Nature they are on an adventure.

 

[negitron]

I think what he meant was clear, that biological evolution has not freed humans from the need to eat meat.

Indeed. It hasn't had time for that sort of change in the few thousand years since humans became agricultural. In any case, to suggest that we have evolved "beyond" something suggests that evolution has a purpose, a direction or perhaps that it pursues a course from less moral to more moral behavior. Neither of these is true in any sense--and the latter is particularly ridiculous. There is no natural pressure for humans to change from an omnivorous diet which includes meat to a largely vegetarian one. Quite the opposite, in fact. Meat is much easier to digest, which is why carnivores have shorter digestive tracts than herbivores; humans fall right in the middle with a gut length less than similarly-sized herbivores but longer than an obligate carnivore's (yet another data point in favor of the belief that humans are naturally omnivorous, as are most other primates). As a nutrition source, meat packs more energy per unit mass than vegetation; as a result, carnivores tend to be overall faster and more active than their herbivorous counterparts. Human civiliartion itself is likely a direct result of that, among other factors.

 

[turbo]

I think what he meant was clear, that biological evolution has not freed humans from the need to eat meat.

That should be clear. Adults can often do well on a diet with no animal protein for extended times, but it would be reckless to force kids to forgo animal protein without providing supplements - Vitamin B12 at a minimum. We evolved as omnivores, and without supplements, it can be difficult or impossible to get some nutrients on a vegetarian diet.

Even worse, some vegetarians load their diets with tofu-based products. Whole foods and minimally-processed foods should be a part of everybody's diet - heavily-processed foods are generally not as healthy. I have a neighbor who is a vegetarian, though his wife, daughter, and grandchildren all are enthusiastic meat-eaters. He will gladly smoke racks of ribs and grills steaks for them, but he cooks tofu-burgers, soy-dogs, etc, for himself. Yuck! Why eat pretend-food? He is a fantastic BBQ cook, but he got onto this vegetarian kick years back. I supply him with my hot chili sauces so he can load his ersatz meats with them and kill the flavor. BTW, he will shoot a wood-chuck or a red squirrel in a heartbeat, so it's not about caring for the critters.

 

[jobyts]

Meat is much easier to digest, which is why carnivores have shorter digestive tracts than herbivores;

I thought it was the opposite.

 

[negitron]

Nope. Plants have tough cell walls which need to be broken down; this require either particular gut flora suited to the task or specialized enzymes. Cooking does help, though, so we have an advantage there, too.

 

[Monique]

I think what he meant was clear, that biological evolution has not freed humans from the need to eat meat.

I never talked about biological evolution. Our society today in Western countries is very different and has evolved significantly from when we were hunter-gatherers. As a hunter-gatherer the options for food were very limited. If you live in an industrialized country and have an income, you have access to nutritional foods and by the cooking process the nutrients can be absorbed. In addition we are educated in what is needed for a healthy diet.

Here is the position of the American Dietetic Association: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...el.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum"

It is the position of the American Dietetic Association that appropriately planned vegetarian diets, including total vegetarian or vegan diets, are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. Well-planned vegetarian diets are appropriate for individuals during all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, and adolescence, and for athletes. A vegetarian diet is defined as one that does not include meat (including fowl) or seafood, or products containing those foods. This article reviews the current data related to key nutrients for vegetarians including protein, n-3 fatty acids, iron, zinc, iodine, calcium, and vitamins D and B-12. A vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients.[/color] In some cases, supplements or fortified foods can provide useful amounts of important nutrients. An evidence- based review showed that vegetarian diets can be nutritionally adequate in pregnancy and result in positive maternal and infant health outcomes. The results of an evidence-based review showed that a vegetarian diet is associated with a lower risk of death from ischemic heart disease. Vegetarians also appear to have lower low-density lipoprotein cholesterol levels, lower blood pressure, and lower rates of hypertension and type 2 diabetes than nonvegetarians. Furthermore, vegetarians tend to have a lower body mass index and lower overall cancer rates. Features of a vegetarian diet that may reduce risk of chronic disease include lower intakes of saturated fat and cholesterol and higher intakes of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, soy products, fiber, and phytochemicals. The variability of dietary practices among vegetarians makes individual assessment of dietary adequacy essential. In addition to assessing dietary adequacy, food and nutrition professionals can also play key roles in educating vegetarians about sources of specific nutrients, food purchase and preparation, and dietary modifications to meet their needs.

 

[z0rn dawg]

No, cats are obligate carnivores.

My cat eats grass for nutritional value (that's what the vet says anyway).

I thought it was the opposite.

Breaking down fruits/vegetables is much harder than breaking down meat. It takes bacteria much longer.

Humans are meant to eat meat. The comment about evolution does show ignorance and to me it suggests that the poster thinks that we have evolved since beginning farming. We still need vitamins, minerals, etc. from meat. Whether you get them from meat or pills/supplements doesn't matter; you still need them. And the natural way is through meat.