I'm really confused about Winding Numbers in Complex Analysis

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of winding numbers in complex analysis, specifically in relation to a given curve and its relation to the point -i (0, -1). Participants are trying to determine the correct winding number for the curve depicted in an image, exploring different interpretations and methods of calculation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the winding number is 2, arguing that the upper loops do not encircle -i and can be ignored without affecting the winding number.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about why certain loops are not counted, suggesting that there may be an extra loop contributing to a winding number of 3.
  • A different perspective introduces the idea that the orientation of the curves can affect the winding number, noting that curves winding in opposite directions may cancel each other out.
  • One participant proposes a method for determining the winding number by counting counterclockwise and clockwise crossings of a line drawn from the point of interest, indicating that the winding number could be either 2 or -2 depending on orientation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the winding number, with multiple competing views on how to interpret the loops and their contributions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct winding number.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations related to the assumptions about the smoothness of the curve and the specific parametrization, which could influence the calculation of the winding number.

~Death~
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I was hoping someone could help me understanding winding numbers

For e.g. the point -i that is (0,-1) on this curve...

I was trying to determine if the winding number was 2 or 3

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/1668/11111111111111countour.jpg
 
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Hi ~Death~! :smile:

It's 2 …

the two upper loops don't go round -i, so you can flatten them out (alternatively, just "snip them off") without changing the winding number …

what's left obviously winds twice (in the same direction) :wink:
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi ~Death~! :smile:

It's 2 …

the two upper loops don't go round -i, so you can flatten them out (alternatively, just "snip them off") without changing the winding number …

what's left obviously winds twice (in the same direction) :wink:

thanks

im still kind of confused though because, why don't I count these loops?

it looks to me like there's an extra one
 

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I think for a general answer to the question, you need to know the orientation of the curves. The winding numbers may cancel each other out if the two curves that wind around the point wind in opposite directions.

OWise, like Tiny Tim said, you just need to look at curve segments that form loops that
wind around (0,1). How many do you see.?

Even more precisely, if you knew the parametrization of the curve, you could integrate
around it to find the winding number.
 
~Death~ said:
thanks

im still kind of confused though because, why don't I count these loops?

it looks to me like there's an extra one

The way you've drawn it, there is!

If you start at the origin, go round the blue circle, then go round the green circle, then go round the red circle, and do some of the curve twice, that path has a winding number of 3 (or of 1, if you go round one of the circles the "wrong way"). :smile:

But the original diagram is presumably intended to indicate that one follows the curve in the only possible smooth way, and each section once only, giving 2. :wink:
 
An old EE prof showed us a trick on how to easily determine winding numbers: start from the point you care about (-i) and draw a straight line out from that in any direction. Count the number of CCW "crossings" of that line, and subtract the CW "crossings". That is your winding number. In this case, assuming the curve is smooth, it is either 2 or -2. Orientation matters!

jason
 

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