Imaginary Geometry in Control Systems

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relevance and application of specific equations related to imaginary numbers and oscillatory systems in control systems, particularly in the context of an upcoming mid-semester exam. Participants explore how these equations might be utilized in various control system concepts, including root locus and differential equations.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Brandon expresses confusion over the inclusion of certain equations related to imaginary numbers in the exam formula sheet, noting he has not encountered them in his course materials.
  • Some participants suggest that these equations may relate to oscillatory systems, with one mentioning their connection to root locus analysis in the imaginary plane.
  • Another participant asserts that the equations are fundamental to oscillatory systems theory, explaining the distinction between overdamped and underdamped systems and questioning how imaginary solutions contribute to oscillations.
  • There is a discussion about the standard presumption that complex exponentials can be expressed in terms of sine and cosine functions, with some participants indicating that a full derivation may not be necessary for the exam.
  • One participant shares a personal experience of successfully applying the equations to a transfer function problem involving imaginary roots, indicating practical use of the concepts discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the necessity or application of the equations in the context of the exam. While some agree on their fundamental nature in oscillatory systems, others express uncertainty about their specific use in root locus problems.

Contextual Notes

There is an implied limitation regarding the completeness of the course materials and the potential for differing interpretations of the equations' relevance to the exam content.

brobertson89
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So I have a control systems mid-semester exam coming up and the lecturer has posted up a formula sheet for us. However it is different to past years exams and has a geometry section with the following equations:

e^(±jθ)=cos(θ)±jsin(θ)
cos(θ)=(e^jθ+e^-jθ)/2
sin(θ)=(e^jθ-e^-jθ)/2j

Now I've seen these equations once before, however not in this course. In fact I have gone over every lecture, every tutorial, every practical and even the textbook looking for where these equations might be used and I can't find anything. So I was just wondering if anyone has any ideas on what I should be ready for.

Cheers,

Brandon:approve:
 
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oscillatory systems?
 
Maybe root locus. I know that is in the imaginary plane, but I don't ever remember using those equtions, althought its entirely possible to do so.
 
wsabol said:
Maybe root locus. I know that is in the imaginary plane, but I don't ever remember using those equtions, althought its entirely possible to do so.

Those equations are the fundamental basis of oscillatory systems theory. Over damped systems have a real solution only. Under damped systems have a real and imaginary solution. How does an imaginary solution create an oscillatory system? See the OP's equations. Those equations are basic equations found in any Diff Eq course and should be fundamental to any engineer (control systems especially).
 
viscousflow said:
Those equations are the fundamental basis of oscillatory systems theory. Over damped systems have a real solution only. Under damped systems have a real and imaginary solution. How does an imaginary solution create an oscillatory system? See the OP's equations. Those equations are basic equations found in any Diff Eq course and should be fundamental to any engineer (control systems especially).

Yes, I know that. But specifically for root locus problems, I don't recall using those equations.

I doubt his prof will require a FULL derivation of simple harmonic motion from the EOMs. I think the presumption that

A*ejwt + B*e-jwt
equals
C*sin(wt) + D*cos(wt)

is pretty standard. You don't have to show the gory details.
 
Last edited:
So it turns out that it was not too hard in the end, I was given a transfer function with a quadratic equation in the denominator and then asked to place it into partial fraction form. I was then asked to find the Laplace Transform of the function and as the roots of the quadratic were imaginary numbers I used those equations.
 
Thank you for the help though, I appreciate it.
 

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