Implications of zero in the denominator when solving equations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of having a zero in the denominator when solving equations related to the coordinates of vertices of a square. The original poster presents a scenario involving points A and B as vertices and seeks to determine the other two vertices while questioning the validity of a deduction made in their book.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants examine the validity of a mathematical deduction involving a zero denominator and its implications on the slopes of the diagonals of a square. They question the reasoning behind the deduction and explore alternative methods for solving the problem.

Discussion Status

There is an ongoing examination of the assumptions made in the problem setup, particularly regarding the coordinates of the vertices. Some participants have offered insights into the implications of the zero denominator, while others have pointed out inconsistencies in the original reasoning. The discussion remains open with various interpretations being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the coordinates provided lead to a situation where the slopes of the diagonals cannot be properly defined, raising questions about the validity of the assumptions made in the problem. The original poster acknowledges the potential for confusion in the setup.

JC2000
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My book states the following :

##{\frac{(y_1)-(y_2)}{(x_1)-(x_2)}}*\frac{(3+1)}{(0-0)} = -1## ...(1)
##\implies y_1 - y_2 = 0##

(A) Is this a valid deduction?

Context :


The Problem :If ##A(0,-1)## and ##B(0,3)## are two opposite vertices of a square, then find the other two vertices.

Solution :

Let D and B be ##(x_1,y_1)## and ##(x_2,y_2)## respectively. Using A and B we can find the mid point of the diagonals M =(0,1).
Since M is also the mid point for BD we get : ##x_1 + x_2 = 0## and ##y_1 + y_2 =2##
Also, (Slope of BD)*(Slope of AC) = -1 This is how statement (1) is arrived at.

(B) if this is an invalid attempt to solve the problem, how else could this be solved ( I realize that the problem with the given values can be solved by plotting the points and hence I am wondering if there is another general method to solve such a problem)?
 
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JC2000 said:
My book states the following :

##{\frac{(y_1)-(y_2)}{(x_1)-(x_2)}}*\frac{(3+1)}{(0-0)} = -1## ...(1)
##\implies y_1 - y_2 = 0##
Really? Your book has this?
It makes no sense to multiply something by ##\frac 4 0## and get -1 as the product.
JC2000 said:
(A) Is this a valid deduction?

Context :

The Problem :If ##A(0,-1)## and ##B(0,3)## are two opposite vertices of a square, then find the other two vertices.

Solution :

Let D and B be ##(x_1,y_1)## and ##(x_2,y_2)## respectively. Using A and B we can find the mid point of the diagonals M =(0,1).
This isn't consistent with what you wrote earlier, with A(0, -1) and B(0, 3). The other two vertices of the square would be C and D.
JC2000 said:
Since M is also the mid point for BD we get : ##x_1 + x_2 = 0## and ##y_1 + y_2 =2##
Also, (Slope of BD)*(Slope of AC) = -1 This is how statement (1) is arrived at.
Based on what you wrote as the given information, this is all very confused. The diagonals would be AB (a vertical line segment) and CD (a horizontal line segment). It's still not legitimate to write an equation that multiplies 0 and something undefined to get -1.
JC2000 said:
(B) if this is an invalid attempt to solve the problem, how else could this be solved ( I realize that the problem with the given values can be solved by plotting the points and hence I am wondering if there is another general method to solve such a problem)?
The two given points are on the y-axis, and are 4 units apart. The other two vertices must be on a horizontal line, also 4 units apart. It should be fairly simple to figure out the coordinates of C and D.
 
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That's terrible! From their drawing, one could immediately see that A and C are on the line x = 0 (the y-axis), which means that the slope of AC is undefined.

What's the name of this book and who is the author?
 
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Yes, I realized my error. I meant A and C were the known coordinates.
The book is actually a question bank, seems the publishers haven't mentioned the author's name.
Thank you for your detailed response.
 
The implication is true, indeed, but that doesn't make the conclusion true. The diagonals are perpendicular if and only if the product of their slopes is ##-1##. This need not be the case.

I only see the parameters specified, but no problem posed.
Edit: nevermind, the problem is to figure out how to compute the midpoint coordinates.

The ##0## in the denominator phenomenon is an indication that something is wrong with the assumptions - in this case, the opposite corners ##A## and ##C## have the same ##x## coordinate, which is impossible.
 
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nuuskur said:
The implication is true, indeed, but that doesn't make the conclusion true. The diagonals are perpendicular if and only if the product of their slopes is −1. This need not be the case.
I think I understand what you meant, but that's different from what you wrote. I believe you mean that this statement -- The diagonals are perpendicular if and only if the product of their slopes is −1. -- is not necessarily true. It's certainly false if one of the diagonals of the square is vertical.
nuuskur said:
The 0 in the denominator phenomenon is an indication that something is wrong with the assumptions - in this case, the opposite corners A and C have the same x coordinate, which is impossible.
No, not impossible if square is rotated by an angle of 45° relative to the x-axis.
 

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