Implicit Differentiation: How to Find the Derivative of an Unknown Function?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around implicit differentiation, specifically finding the derivative of an unknown function defined by equations involving both x and y. Participants are examining two equations: xy = 25 and x² + 3xy + y² = 15, and they are trying to understand the process of differentiating these equations with respect to x.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to apply implicit differentiation and the product rule, but some express confusion about the application of the chain rule and the correct form of the derivatives. Questions arise regarding the treatment of y as a function of x and the proper use of derivatives in the context of implicit functions.

Discussion Status

Some guidance has been offered regarding the differentiation process, particularly in relation to the product rule and the chain rule. Participants are exploring different interpretations of the equations and the implications of treating y as a function of x. There is a lack of consensus on the correct approach, but productive discussion is ongoing.

Contextual Notes

Participants are grappling with the foundational concepts of implicit differentiation and the assumptions involved in treating y as a function of x. There is an acknowledgment of the complexity of the problem and the need for clarity in the differentiation process.

cd246
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Homework Statement


I just got started on this, and am not grasping the WHOLE idea.
1.xy=25 The answer says -y/x
2.x^2+3xy+y^2=15 And this says -y^2/x^2


Homework Equations


1. dy/dx(xy)= dy/dx(25)
1=0 ?
2.dy/dx x^2+3xy+y^2= dy/dx 15
2x+3+y(dy/dx) =0

The Attempt at a Solution


2. -2x-3/y (which i know is not right.)
 
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cd246 said:

Homework Statement


I just got started on this, and am not grasping the WHOLE idea.
1.xy=25 The answer says -y/x
2.x^2+3xy+y^2=15 And this says -y^2/x^2


Homework Equations


1. dy/dx(xy)= dy/dx(25)
1=0 ?
2.dy/dx x^2+3xy+y^2= dy/dx 15
2x+3+y(dy/dx) =0

The Attempt at a Solution


2. -2x-3/y (which i know is not right.)

The basic idea is this: Consider y as a function of x.

For example, you have x times y(x) = 25.

Now differentiate both sides with respect to x. You may use the chain rule on the product x times y(x).

[tex]\frac{d}{dx} ( x y(x)) = \frac{d}{dx} (25)[/tex]

Apply the chain rule, take the derivatives and then isolate dy/dx.
 
I don't know if I got this right.
I used the product rule: (x)(y(x))'+(x)'(y(x)) and for derivative of y(x), I used the
chain rule to find the derivative. And got(x)(1*x*x)+(x)(y(x)). -> x^3+xy(x)d/dx=0 What else am I doing wrong?
 
cd246 said:
I don't know if I got this right.
I used the product rule: (x)(y(x))'+(x)'(y(x)) and for derivative of y(x), I used the
chain rule to find the derivative. And got(x)(1*x*x)+(x)(y(x)). -> x^3+xy(x)d/dx=0 What else am I doing wrong?

You can't use the chain rule to find the derivative of y(x) since it's an unknown function. Just leave it as [itex]y'[/itex]! Now, using (x)' = 1, you get

y + x y' = 0 so y' = -y/x

It's that simple!
 

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