Implicit function / Separable ODE

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of singular points in the context of solving separable ordinary differential equations (ODEs). Participants explore the relationship between implicit functions and the conditions under which certain functions are defined.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to understand the significance of points where the functions G(y) and H(x) are not defined in the context of rearranging an implicit relation. Other participants question the implications of singular points and their effect on the uniqueness of solutions, particularly in relation to specific examples of differential equations.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the concepts, raising questions about the nature of singular solutions and their implications for the uniqueness of solutions. Some guidance has been offered regarding the importance of singular points, but no consensus has been reached on the original poster's query.

Contextual Notes

There is a focus on the definitions and behaviors of functions involved in the rearrangement of differential equations, particularly in relation to singular points and their effects on solutions. The discussion also touches on the potential loss of uniqueness in solutions due to these singularities.

Ted Burgess
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Hi,

The final step of solving a separable ODE is to find a function, f, defined implicitly by a relation

G(y) = H(x).

Say G(y) isn't defined at y = a and H(x) isn't defined at x = b, it appears to me that when rearranging such a relation to put y in terms of x, the point at which G(y) isn't defined isn't 'important' because it doesn't correspond to a point where y = f(x) is defined anyway.

Is this the case and if so, why?

Example

H(y) = G(x) = 1 / (y-1) = x
H(y) defined for all real values except y = 0
G(x) defined for all real values.

Rearrangement gives,

y = f(x) = 1 + 1 / x

and no value of x will solve f(x) = 1

Cheers
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The point where G(y) is not defined is usually important. This is because you get G(y) by integrating some g(y), which is typically made by dividing some f(y), originally on the left, by h(y), originally on the right. And h(y) = 0 may well correspond to the singular points of G(y). What needs to be done is research whether h(y) results in any special solutions of the original equation (which is significantly simplified in this case). For example:

y' = y^2 => y'/y^2 = 1 => -1/y = t + C => y = -1/(t + C) (*)

However, y^2 = 0 => y = 0, which is a singular solution not given by (*).
 
Thanks very much for your response but, to use your example, suppose the original differential equation is

y' / y^2 = 1 instead of y' = y^2

what I'm wanting to find out is why the rearranged solution of y' / y^2 doesn't seem to go through the singular point of 1 / y^2

Thanks
 
Because the function on the right would have to be infinite. In our example, C has to be infinite, or the independent variable has to be infinite. Among other things, that means that the solution is not unique (it is satisfied for any initial value of x). The loss of uniqueness is the more general property of singular solutions. For example, y'^2 = 4y => y = (x + c)^2. There are no infinities involved, however at x = -c all the solutions go through y = 0, which is a singular solution as well. In this case, by the way, no constant of integration can be manipulated to obtain the singular solution.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K