In LHC collisions are protons aligned one-into-one?

In summary, the conversation discussed the logistical limitations of directly aligning protons in the LHC proton-to-proton collision experiments. Instead, a beam of approximately 1011 protons with a radius of 10-6 m is used, and the chances of collisions are increased. The two colliding proton beams are intentionally not aligned to avoid multiple collisions along the beam axis. The use of magnetic lenses and triggers helps to control and filter the collisions, reducing background noise and increasing the chances of capturing rare events.
  • #1
ceffects
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My understanding, please correct me if I am wrong, is that in the LHC proton-to-proton collision experiments it is technically not feasible to align protons directly into each other. Why is that and where can I look this up?
 
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  • #2
The protons are small (around 10-15m diameter) so it is nigh impossible logistically to make one proton directly hit another one. Instead they make a beam of about 1011 protons with a radius of approximately 10-6 m. When two of these beams hit each other, the chances are that some protons will collide.

Here's a good place to look for more information http://www.lhc-closer.es/php/index.php?i=1&s=3&p=9&e=0
 
  • #3
Rooted is correct.

However, maybe you were referring to a different issue.

The two colliding proton beams are also not aligned intentionally, not because of technical limitations.

This is because if they were aligned there would be collisions at many points across the beam axis (every point proton bunches cross), and there would be a "mess"
Therefore, the beams have a small relative angle which makes sure they only cross at one point
Which is the collision point
 
  • #4
Rooted said:
The protons are small (around 10-15m diameter) so it is nigh impossible logistically to make one proton directly hit another one. Instead they make a beam of about 1011 protons with a radius of approximately 10-6 m. When two of these beams hit each other, the chances are that some protons will collide.

Here's a good place to look for more information http://www.lhc-closer.es/php/index.php?i=1&s=3&p=9&e=0

Thanks for the link. I saw that page before and found it most informative. I was wondering if there was an article about this impossibility (direct hit alignment) somewhere?
 
  • #5
ofirg said:
Rooted is correct.

However, maybe you were referring to a different issue.

The two colliding proton beams are also not aligned intentionally, not because of technical limitations.

This is because if they were aligned there would be collisions at many points across the beam axis (every point proton bunches cross), and there would be a "mess" Therefore, the beams have a small relative angle which makes sure they only cross at one point. Which is the collision point

Rooted's answer was what I was referring to. Tricky stuff, it is amazing what they can and cannot do.
 
  • #6
Magnetic 'lenses' of a sort (casually called 'optics', a handy term to use for research) are used to control the protons around the ring, to bend them into a circle, focus and defocus the beam, and accelerate them. The protons are continually repelling each other, so has a tendency to widen the beam. You probably will have seen the term 'luminosity' in your research? This is an important concept. Integrated luminosity can give you information about how many 'events' you are likely to see. The luminosity is directly related to properties of the beam. Perhaps this will be useful to you? http://pdg.web.cern.ch/pdg/2011/reviews/rpp2011-rev-accel-phys-colliders.pdf

Just thinking about it a little bit, if you were actively trying to collide one proton directly against another there would be a significant Heisenberg Uncertainty in the position of the proton as the velocities involved are so relativistic. This page does a calculation that shows the uncertainty in position is ten times greater than the radius of the proton. http://www.relativitycalculator.com/Heisenberg_Uncertainty_Principle.shtml This effect by itself would be enough to make a head-on collision very challenging.
 
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  • #7
"1-into-2 or more protons." does not happen with any reasonable probability.

Concerning selection and so on:

CMS and ATLAS see a bunch crossing each 50ns (design: 25ns), with ~15-25 collisions per crossing (design: 25). Here, a collision is anything hard enough to give tracks in the detector. Most events are "boring" - simple electromagnetic deflection of the proton, or just some pions or other light particles are produced. Some events are more high-energetic - especially all events with heavy particles (top, Higgs).
It is impossible to store all this data. Therefore, both detectors use trigger systems: Events without high-energetic particles are dropped, the remaining events are reconstructed and again events without something interesting are dropped. Those triggers reduce the input rate of 20MHz (bunch crossing rate) to ~100-200 Hz. Just those rare events (one out of 100.000) get stored. In the analysis afterwards, another filter step is applied, reducing the effective rate even further.

The idea behind all this filtering is to remove as much background as possible, while keeping as much signal as possible at the same time. The triggers remove some Higgs events, indeed. But this fraction is well-known from simulations and has been taken into account.
 
  • #8
This thread has been set adrift on the Sea of Crackpottery. Since the OP's original question is answered, the thread is closed.
 

1. What is the LHC and what does it do?

The LHC (Large Hadron Collider) is a particle accelerator located at CERN in Switzerland. It is used to accelerate protons to nearly the speed of light and then collide them together to study the fundamental building blocks of matter and the laws that govern them.

2. How are protons aligned one-into-one in LHC collisions?

The protons in the LHC are guided through a series of magnetic fields to keep them on a circular path. When the protons reach their maximum energy, they are then directed to collide with another beam of protons travelling in the opposite direction, resulting in one proton from each beam colliding with each other.

3. Why is it important to align protons one-into-one in LHC collisions?

Aligning the protons one-into-one is important because it increases the chances of a high-energy collision, which can produce new particles and help scientists better understand the fundamental laws of physics. It also allows for more precise measurements and observations of particles and their interactions.

4. How are the collisions in the LHC controlled and monitored?

The LHC collisions are controlled and monitored by a complex system of magnets, detectors, and computer systems. The magnets are used to steer and focus the proton beams, while the detectors capture and analyze the particles produced from the collisions. The data collected is then processed and analyzed by computer systems to provide insights into the collisions.

5. What has been discovered through LHC collisions and how does it impact our understanding of the universe?

Through LHC collisions, scientists have discovered the Higgs boson, a fundamental particle that gives mass to other particles. This discovery has helped to complete the Standard Model of particle physics and has deepened our understanding of the universe and its origins. The LHC also continues to provide insights into other mysteries of the universe, such as dark matter and antimatter.

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