Incorrect Hybrid Polariton Dispersion Results

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around verifying the results of hybrid polariton dispersion using a specific Hamiltonian. Participants explore the eigenenergies derived from a matrix representation and the characteristic polynomial associated with hybrid polaritons, addressing discrepancies with published results.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the Hamiltonian and the resulting dispersion graph for hybrid polaritons, indicating difficulties in matching published results.
  • Another participant suggests that the signs of terms involving coupling constants may be incorrect, but this is later dismissed as not being the issue.
  • A participant questions the relevance of a cited reference on surface plasmons, suggesting that the coupling constants or dispersion assumptions may be incorrect.
  • Concerns are raised about the characteristic polynomial not reproducing bare particle energies in the limit of no coupling, indicating a potential issue with the formulation.
  • One participant confirms that the approach to solving the cubic equation is correct, but emphasizes the importance of ensuring the correct conventions and transformations are applied.
  • Another participant shares their method for calculating dispersion, using simple numerical values for parameters, acknowledging that they are unphysical but serve as a testing ground.
  • There is a request for explicit expressions for coefficients in the cubic equation, indicating a need for clarity in the calculations.
  • Participants discuss the graphing of dispersion and the relationship between the cubic equation and the characteristic polynomial.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correctness of the Hamiltonian and the derived equations. There is no consensus on the source of the discrepancies in the dispersion results, and multiple competing hypotheses are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note the importance of specific assumptions regarding coupling constants and dispersion shapes, as well as the need for clarity in mathematical transformations. The discussion highlights unresolved issues related to the characteristic polynomial and its implications for the eigenenergies.

Who May Find This Useful

Researchers and students interested in hybrid polaritonics, dispersion relations, and the mathematical modeling of exciton-cavity interactions may find this discussion relevant.

thefacemyer
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I am trying to verify the results of the hybrid polariton case with the following hamiltonian, but cannot seem to verify the results in various published papers. Can someone please explain what is wrong and how to get the a similar dispersion graph? I'm solving for the eigenenergies for the matrix below, then solve the cubic using the trigonometric method.

Code:
\begin{pmatrix}
E_c - \lambda & F & W \\
F & E_f - \lambda & 0 \\
W & 0 & E_w - \lambda
\end{pmatrix}

Where Ec is the photon/cavity energy, Ef is the Frenkel exciton energy, and Ew is the Wannier-Mott exciton energy.

The characteristic equation is:
Code:
\begin{equation}
0 = \lambda_n^3 - (E_c + E_f +E_w)\lambda_n^2 + (E_f E_w + E_c E_w + E_c E_f - F^2 - W^2)\lambda_n - E_c E_f E_w +F^2 E_w + W^2 E_f
\end{equation}

Where n = {0,1,2} corresponding to the three hybrid polariton branches. I used the trigonometric formula to solve the cubic for the energy.

Code:
\begin{equation}
\lambda_n = 2 \sqrt{- \frac{p}{3}} \cos \left( \frac{1}{3} \arccos \left( \frac{3q}{2p} \sqrt{- \frac{3}{p}} \right) - \frac{2 \pi n}{3} \right)
\end{equation}

Where p and q are the coefficients of the transformed cubic
Code:
\begin{equation}
\lambda_n^3 + p\lambda_n + q = 0
\end{equation}
.
 
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Could it be, that the sign of the terms containing F and W is wrong?
 
Unfortunately, that isn't the problem (it only worsened the curves).
 
You should give us your references.
 
The matrix is pretty standard in hybrid polaritonics as well as the 3-oscillator dispersion.
Determining-the-Rabi-energies-by-the-coupled-oscillator-model-Dispersion-relation-of-the.jpg

Taken from:
Strong coupling between surface plasmon polaritons and Sulforhodamine 101 dye
  • March 2012
  • Nanoscale Research Letters 7(1):191
  • DOI:
  • 10.1186/1556-276X-7-191
  • Source
  • https://www.researchgate.net/deref/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpubmed%2F22429311

  • License
  • https://www.researchgate.net/deref/https%3A%2F%2Fcreativecommons.org%2Flicenses%2Fby%2F2.0%2F
  • Svitlana_Baieva.jpg
    Svitlana V Baieva
  • https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/13327746_T_K_Hakala?_sg=n9QRcKpXonAMNYrufZTHIhEyVk1Lces7xSWkqyBWuMfqOq0FCsK9iHRNns1M0bwkdlfKzVs.vGHxvSa2VUYMQJEBdLMgiJyA5Ug4IqjkfUL-lO3FpxmSZm9LxKdOExvOFf5R15UzmLGcGPUDCTElNNqg5mEMUw
  • J_Toppari.jpg
    J. Jussi Toppari
 

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That is puzzling. You want to calculate the polariton dispersion for two different excitons coupling to a cavity mode, but post a reference for surface plasmons, which have a different dispersion. Most likely you are assuming wrong coupling constants or an incorrect dispersion for the bare particles.

It will be hard to help you, unless you post the exact bare particle dispersions and off-diagonal matrix elements you assume. Is your cavity dispersion parabolic with an effective mass? What is the effective mass you assume? What are the off-diagonal elements? What does your dispersion look like now?
 

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The original post of mine is the correct matrix for the characteristic polynomial.
 
Well, your equation (2) does not reproduce the bare particle energies in the limit of no coupling (F=0 and W=0), so there is obviously something wrong with it.
 
  • #10
This is why I've posted the question. There is something wrong, and I need to help finding it. The hamiltonian is correct and comes from the latter referenced article.
 
  • #11
I should have been more clear. Sorry. Could you give us the explicit expressions you get for p and q?
 
  • #12
4e9b7cc61a1dff62a3cdb3a6a2bb3ebc9b7aa753
 
  • #13
Assuming you are not interested in linewidths (imaginary part) at the moment, you are doing it right. This will give you the correct results. A quick check gave me the correct dispersions.
Did you check that:
- your convention in the cos-term is right (degree or radians)
- hat you remember to convert back to the energies? The roots you calculate this way are for the \lambda_n in the transformed cubic, which is usually called t and not equivalent to your initial \lambda_n. You get back to the energy by calculating E_i=t_i-\frac{b}{3a}
 
  • #14
Thanks! I'll check. Could you tell me what you used for your micro cavity energy?
 
  • #15
I just used simple numbers, where I know that the numbers will not create a mess.

The x-value (cavity length, k-value, whatever) goes from 1 to 100. In this range, Ec goes from -50 to 50. Ef=-10. Ew=10. F^2=W^2=10.
Of course these numbers are unphysical, but it is easy to go to meaningful numbers once the equations work well.
 
  • #16
If I may, what are you using to graph the dispersion?

Let me ask clearly, you get the cubic (eq 1) for the characteristic polynomial?
 
  • #17
Thank you. I have the dispersion with respect to angle of incidence. I'm not sure why my cavity-dispersion wasn't correct when I used cavity length, though. Thanks again!
 

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