Infinite series by integration by parts

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the hypothesis related to the evaluation of integrals involving infinite series through integration by parts. Participants explore the implications of certain conditions on the convergence of these integrals, particularly focusing on the behavior of anti-derivatives and derivatives of functions as they approach infinity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a hypothesis involving the relationship between anti-derivatives and derivatives of functions, suggesting that if a certain limit condition holds, the integral can be expressed as an infinite series.
  • Another participant introduces the Mean Value Theorem to support the idea that the integral approaches zero under specific conditions, although the application of this theorem is not fully explored.
  • A later reply discusses the use of induction to derive a relationship between the integral and a series, but notes that the limit behavior of the functions involved complicates the proof.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications if the limit does not approach zero, suggesting that the behavior of the functions could lead to different outcomes, including the possibility of infinite limits.
  • There is a proposal to consider the limits approaching infinity in a controlled manner to ensure convergence, although this idea remains speculative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the conditions under which the hypothesis holds, particularly regarding the limits of the functions involved. There is no consensus on the validity of the hypothesis or the methods proposed for proving it.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the behavior of the functions as they approach infinity, the assumptions regarding continuity, and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in the proofs.

disregardthat
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Hi, I wonder if this hypothesis is true:

Let [tex]f_n[/tex] be an arbitrarily chosen n'th anti-derivative of the function [tex]f_0[/tex]. Similarly, let [tex]g_n[/tex] be the n'th derivative of the function [tex]g_0[/tex].

Now, [tex]\int^b_a f_0 g_0 \rm{d}x=[f_1g_0]^b_a-\int^b_a f_1g_1 \rm{d}x=[f_1g_0-f_2g_1+...]^b_a+(-1)^n \int^b_a f_{n+1}g_n \rm{d}x[/tex].

hypothesis:

If [tex]\lim_{n \to \infty} f_{n+1}g_n =0[/tex] for all continuous intervals of and never diverges. Then

[tex]\int^b_a f_0 g_0 \rm{d}x = [\sum^{\infty}_{n=0} (-1)^n f_{n+1}g_n]^b_a[/tex]

This seems intuitively correct, but I wonder how to prove it.
 
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I'm thinking Mean Value Theorem. The integral equals [tex]\epsilon(b-a)(f_{n+1}g_n)|_{x=c}[/tex] for some c in the interval [a, b] and [tex]0 \leq \epsilon \leq 1[/tex] which approaches zero.
 
this was double post, sorry
 
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Excellent, thank you.

We have by induction that

[tex]\int^b_a f_0g_0 \rm{d}x = [\sum^{n-1}_{k=0} (-1)^kf_{k+1}g_{k}]^b_a+(-1)^n\int^b_af_{n+1}g_n \rm{d}x=[\sum^{n-1}_{k=0} (-1)^kf_{k+1}g_{k}]^b_a+(b-a)(f_{n+1} \circ g_n)(t)[/tex]

For some [tex]t \in [a,b][/tex], and any non-negative integer n.

However, [tex]\lim_{n \to \infty} (f_{n+1} \circ g_{n} )(t)=0[/tex] is given, so

[tex]\int^b_a f_0g_0 \rm{d}x = \lim_{n \to \infty} \int^b_a f_0g_0 \rm{d}x= \lim_{n \to \infty} [\sum^{n-1}_{k=0} (-1)^kf_{k+1}g_{k}]^b_a+(-1)^n\int^b_af_{n+1}g_n \rm{d}x=\lim_{n \to \infty}[\sum^{n-1}_{k=0} (-1)^kf_{k+1}g_{k}]^b_a+(b-a)(f_{n+1} \circ g_n)(t)=[\sum^{\infty}_{k=0} (-1)^kf_{k+1}g_{k}]^b_a[/tex]

But this is not so obvious if [tex]\lim_{n \to \infty} (f_{n+1} \circ g_{n} )(t)[/tex] not always equal 0 i.e. is finite for discrete values of x, or if either of the limits are infinite. Can someone help me there?

Perhaps if the limits are infinite, we can let n tend towards infinity at a rate which make [tex]f_{n+1}g_n[/tex] dominate a limit, say b i.e. so [tex]\lim_{b,n \to \infty} b \cdot f_{n+1}g_n = 0[/tex] Can we choose it to be like that?
 
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