Inner Product Proof: Proving Sums with Algebra and Inner Product Concepts

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving an inequality involving sums of products of real numbers, specifically the expression (\sum a_j b_j)^2 \leq \sum a_j^2 \sum b_j^2. Participants explore the relationship between this inequality and inner product concepts, questioning how to effectively utilize these mathematical tools in their proof.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss various approaches to the proof, including the use of diagonal matrices and transformations. Some suggest starting with specific cases, such as n=2, to simplify the problem. Others raise questions about the implications of using inner product notation and the validity of certain algebraic manipulations.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing hints and suggestions to guide each other. There is a mix of ideas being explored, including the potential application of the Cauchy-Schwarz inequality and the need for careful reasoning in proofs. Some participants express frustration over unclear or unsupported claims, indicating a desire for more rigorous argumentation.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the challenge of proving the inequality using algebra alone, suggesting that inner product concepts may offer a clearer path. There are indications of confusion regarding the definitions and implications of certain mathematical symbols and terms, which may affect the clarity of the discussion.

  • #31
Fredrik said:
Why don't you just do it like this?

Step 1: Prove that \langle x,y\rangle=\sum_n x_n y_n defines an inner product.
Step 2: Show that this definition turns the Cauchy-Schwartz inequality into

\left(\sum_j x_j y_j\right)^2\leq\left(\sum_j x_j^2\right)\left(\sum_j y_j^2\right)

Step 3: Make a specific choice of x_j and y_j that turns the inequality into the one you want, and explain why you're allowed to do that.

Steps 1 and 2 are probably unnecessary. We are doing standard inner product, standard Cauchy-Schwarz. It's step 3 that seems to be the obstacle for these 30 posts. Good luck.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
evilpostingmong said:
The beginning may be a bit confusing, but it gets better later on.
It didn't get much better, and let's be realistic, no one is going to read that far anyway unless you can make more sense in the beginning.

If you're trying to prove the Cauchy-Schwartz inequality, the standard trick is to note that \langle x,x\rangle\geq 0 for all x, and that this means that

0\leq\langle x+ty,x+ty\rangle

for all vectors x,y and all scalars t. You get the Cauchy-Schwartz inequality by using the properties of the inner product and choosing t to make the right-hand side as small as possible. This is the trick that all the books use, which makes me think that it's the easiest method by far. See Wikipedia for more details.
 
  • #33
Dick said:
Steps 1 and 2 are probably unnecessary. We are doing standard inner product, standard Cauchy-Schwarz. It's step 3 that seems to be the obstacle for these 30 posts.
I guess that explains your frustration. :smile:
 
  • #34
I read the proof, and it involves the quadratic formula. Dick's right, it does
have a weird trick that comes from nowhere (but makes sense anyway).
Seems kinda advanced, but understandable. I don't know why it was included as
problem #3 in my book.
Thanks for the help guys!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K